Datel, who expressed disappointment over a recent Xbox 360 firmware upgrade that eliminated the ability to use its third-party memory cards with Microsoft’s console, has responded with a lawsuit.
The complaint, filed in the Northern District of California U.S. District Court, alleges that the October 2009 Xbox 360 update, and subsequent lock out of Datel products, was designed to “to exclude competition from the Xbox 360 aftermarket for controllers, and to force consumers to buy Microsoft's own controllers.”
Datel claims that Microsoft informed them that the lockout of Datel products was an “unintentional effect” of the software update, but notes that Microsoft told G4TV that, “Unauthorized MUs are not tested for compatibility or certified for safety and compliance standards and thus could damage -customer's Xbox 360 consoles.”
Datel also says that Microsoft has changed the 360’s authorization protocols and Security Integrated Circuit process to prevent all Datel accessories, even a currently unreleased 360 wireless controller, from working with the console, stating:
In fact, it is Microsoft's anticompetitive conduct, including tying and predatory design, such as the erection of technological barriers to third party accessories and the disabling of otherwise functional third party accessories, not consumer loyalty or esteem, that primarily drives Microsoft's accessories attach rate.
The lawsuit asks that Microsoft be adjudged to have violated federal anti-trust laws and that the Redmond, Washington company “be preliminarily and permanently enjoined and restrained from disabling or erecting technological barriers to Datel accessories and add-ons for the Xbox 360. Datel is also seeking damages and to have its attorney fees paid.
The full complaint can be viewed here (PDF).
|Via Seattle PI|
Comments
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
I think I'll side with Datel on this one. It's not that I harbor any fondness for 3rd party electronics; quite the opposite (A 'Maxdrive' brand memory card fried with my gamecube, back when they actually costed money). And i'm not against Microsoft having their own 360 market, either. I believe their well in their legality to exclude others from their console.
However, I think that if Microsoft wanted to put a system like thiw in place, it should have been implemented when the 360 came out, instead of letting a market of 3rd party accesories go unchecked, only to pull the floor out from under them now.
Does the U.S. court system work that way? No. But that's my opinion.
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
hey I happend upon something on wikipedia I havent read it fully (me no smart hur hur heheh) but it seems relevant (hmm cant copy and past the link) just search for "sega v. accolade"
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_v._Accolade
this it??
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
I have a dream, break the chains of copy right oppression! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/2011/12/31/what-is-cigital-disobedience/
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
yeah thats it does it mean anything to this case?
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
It may but from my meek understanding the DMCA pretty much makes anythign that is not ok'd by the media indutry illict, even if you perchase the CSS liscneing and make a fully legit program that then adds another elvel of DRM on it to make digital copies off your dvds is illict becuse the media mafia dose not paly fair....
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
I have a dream, break the chains of copy right oppression! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/2011/12/31/what-is-cigital-disobedience/
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
This is a 3 part problem one MS dose not make it cheap or easy to be liscenced this allow a slew of crap products, make it cheap but force higher standards then start locking out the bad stuff. But no they just want to lock out competition....
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
I have a dream, break the chains of copy right oppression! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/2011/12/31/what-is-cigital-disobedience/
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
Microsoft doesn't licence 3rd party gamepad or memory cards. The only exceptions are steering wheels and the Modern Warfare™ 2 Combat Controller by Mad Catz.
The only other things they licence are faceplates, maybe graphics kits? I doubt any of the battery chargers made by nyko, etc. are licensed.
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
Go Datel!
I'd love to see MS forced to losen its grip on 3rd party accessories.
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
Heh, and funnily enough, I doubt Microsoft licenses any third party accessories.
Their online service is pay to use, when it could easily go free, andn ow you're forced to pay double what an item is worth.
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
The issue here is that MS doesn't seem to have a (robust) licensing system for 3rd-party accessories, locking you into the MS-made peripherals only. If I had a choice in WiFi adapters for the 360 I would get a licensed non-MS one as it would certainly be cheaper and just as functional. The same goes for a memory card.
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
I hope MS lose. The PS3 is open to just about all accessories, no need for special Sony memory cards now, just use a USB flash drive, swap around the hard drive with ease. With the 360 buy Microsoft's own products that cost at least 20x more than that of comparable media, buy the MS memory card, buy the MS hard drive.
It has been hell for me moving around a few save files between two Xbox hard drives, and this is all legimate, I created the saves, I want to use them, but in order to do so I have to install my profile, move saves through a MS product and then hope the copy protection allows me to use the saves.
Being an owner of both a PS3 and 360, I have to say Sony easily won out with freedom to use non own-branded accessories and freedom to move data around.
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
I doubt I'll ever buy another Microsoft console. Sure in the beginning it was cheaper than the PS3, then I had to go out and buy a wifi part, and another hard drive, and had to pay monthly for online (which is free on the other two consoles and both handhelds) and then the whole fuckin RROD debacle. Yeah, Microsoft is going to really kick themselves during the next console era.
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I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
its microsofts console and thats all well and good but this lets them charge through the roof if they want
anyone here know if their controllers and hard drives etc etc are actually worth what their selling them for?
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
I know their hard-drives aren't. Someone opened up the "case" of a 360 HD and found out it was an off the shelf model. You're basically paying a premium for the case and maybe an adaptor
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
I can not believe I am about to do this.. but in a way, I kinda feel for Microsoft in this case.
I used to work for a company that produced a coupled hardware/software game product. 3rd party hardware swap outs were one of our repeating nightmares. Not because it lost money from a sale, but because of QA problems. Any time a 3rd party part became common, we would get flack if we did not test and support it with every software upgrade, and anything that caused parts to stop working was a big conspiracy that we must have done it on purpose (as opposed to, say, only including drivers that we tested and matched our hardwave).
But even worse.... people would swap out hardware which would effect system preformance (a typical example would be replacing the hard drive), and then people would walk away talking about how crappy our software was because the hard drive was not behaving just right (we had custom firmwares on our drives that changed how they handled sleep, so normal desktop drives would cause stuttering and such). Very, very frustrating... and very loose-loose.
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
Frankly they will have to prove datels hardware is bad in court for me to side with MS.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
I have a dream, break the chains of copy right oppression! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/2011/12/31/what-is-cigital-disobedience/
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
I use Datel and have no complaints.
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I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
So have I in all my years of PSx/PS2,N64 one of my offical mem cards died and the super multi that had 5X the spave lost one "page" of data and I had a perfectly fine working PS2 that a offical pad blew the rumble fuses in.... so you know what offical might work better most of the time but tis not fool proof....
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
I have a dream, break the chains of copy right oppression! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/2011/12/31/what-is-cigital-disobedience/
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
In your case a simple and well publisized position of "We do not test nor support 3rd party hardware and accessories. if you cannot use such 3rd party equipment with our game, then take it up with the provider of said equipment."
Its not your responsibility to test other people's equipment.
That is one of the main "arguments" against Linux. People complain that linux doesn't support their Video Card, Wireless Card, Printer, software etc. What they don't, or often refuse, to realise is that it is not Linux's responsibility to provide drivers and compatable software for their operating system, it is the responsibility of the hardware and software vendor to supply the support.
But this is a bit different than the Console market. Ever since the NES, third parties have produced controllers, memory cards etc for game consoles. Game Consumers expect to have cheaper 3rd party options for accessories. With Microsoft using firmware updates to lock out all 3rd party accessory competition, something that they have publicly stated, they are stepping into very thin ice with regards to anti-trust laws.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
Random Tower: Game News and Commentary
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
Trust me, no matter how bit of writing you put such a warning in, you STILL get customers complaining after they used 3rd party parts. What is even worse was repair shops were doing swap outs and then putting them back in locations, and end customers with no knoweldge of the modifications walked away with a bad impression. This would make them less likely to use well maintained machines at other locations due to the previous crummy experince.
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
However Microsoft haven't locked out all 3rd party accessories.
What they have done is to disable the use of unlicensed accessories which (due to lacking the quality assurance that licensed partners go through) can be used to cheat on various multiplayer games.
Or as you so nicely pointed out, it's not Microsofts job to support 3rd party hardware that can ruin the game experience for others.
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
Didn't Nintendo lose a similar suit way back in the NES days because of how much they were charging 3rd party companies to get "Liscensed"?
Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
That's odd 3rd party manifacturers make devices for other consoles and I don't see a "X or Y licensed product" anwhere on their boxes "cept for a few devices". Or did Microsoft just started to apply this strategy recently? I can understand with video games (software) but hardware is a bit of a stretch. Imagine if Microsoft would lock out Logitech's Keyboards or Mice from operating in a Windowws OS via patch. If I were logitech of course I would be pissed just like Datel is right now. Or even worse imagine if Microsoft starts asking for a "licensing fee" to let 3rd party controllers or devices work on the 360. This is a recipe for disaster if you ask me.
This Anti-Trust lawsuit looks like it has some good merits.
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
That still would fall int oati-trust law. They are locking out people that aren't paying them money.
So it still boils down to Microsoft locking out hardware that is not gaining them any money.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
Random Tower: Game News and Commentary
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
Would any of the antitrust cases against Apple apply here? I know that Psystar had their antitrust claim tossed out, but I think that was in part because Apple no longer licenses any 3rd party hardware.
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
Psystar had their case tossed out because a judge found that they were in violation of the Anti-circumvention laws of the DMCA.
One might make a case against apple if they were requiring all printer, mouse, keyboard, monitor etc accessory manufacuters to pay either a license fee to get support or not make accessories for the Mac. You might also make a case against Apple if they maliciously released updates that broke compatability with unlicensed accessories.
As it stands, Apple is not under similar circumstances with their Mac line of computers as Microsoft is with their 360 console.
The Psystar case would more similar to someone trying to make a 3rd party 360 console, while Microsoft were still actively manufactuering and marketing their 360 console.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
Random Tower: Game News and Commentary
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
That was why I was asking. One of Psystar's defense claims was that Apple's refusal to allow 3rd party hardware was an anti-trust violation. That defense was dismissed, I think because the Judge determined that there wasn't actually a Macintosh hardware market for Apple to be anti-competetive in (or something along those lines).
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
Heres what I do not get Apple made mac OS PC sompalbitle and Psystar is selling mac clones with a legit copy of the software, it may be modded a bit to run on the hardware but otherwise tis fully legit they can;t stop the end user from doing it so how can they stop a business whos buying the software legitmatly? Its almost as if apple dose not want to sell the OS at all.....
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
I have a dream, break the chains of copy right oppression! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/2011/12/31/what-is-cigital-disobedience/
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
As pointed out, they really do not care about selling their OS in the first place. They are not an OS company, they are a hardware company.
Beyond that, they worry about the public perception of their OS. People see OSX runing poorly on cheap clone hardware and it leaves them with a poor impression of apply products, and thus are less likely to buy a full system.
Apple ran into this problem last time they tried lisencing clones, and the PC clone market went though quite a bit of it in the early days. A original IBM PC and cheap chinese knockoff ran the same software, more people bought the cheap ones, and came away thinking that PCs were crappy and unstable. The image then work its way back to IBM.
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
That's just it. Apple doesn't sell their OS, they sell computers. Any disc copies you buy from Apple are Upgrade discs for current Mac Computers not for 3rd party computers. Mac Motherboards have soem chips installed on them that the OS looks for in order to register the PC. Psystar was modding the software to bypass that check in order to get the OS onto their computers. That is why they wer found in violation of the DMCA.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
Random Tower: Game News and Commentary
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
I'm with you on this one. It is Microsoft's console, so they are free todo what they want with it. If you don't like it, go to Playstation or Wii. Microsoft isn't forcing players to use only the XBOX.
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
No, no it's not their right. They continue to try and gouge their customers any way they can. This is going to make it real hard on'em come next gen.
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I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
To be honest, I am not sure I feel they have a right to.... but I can see why they would want to lock 3rd parties out beyond the 'they are greedy' argument.
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
"they are free todo what they want with it."
Your ignorance of the legalities is laughable.
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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
While I don't like Datel's products I hope can kick some MS ass.
http://www.magicinkgaming.com/
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
I hope they damn well win. And win big.
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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
As someone who has had a PS2 memory card slot fried out by making the mistake of using offbrand accessories, I hope they lose and lose big.
-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
What brand? After all, people get a RROD WITHOUT using any third-party equipment for a 360.
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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
Nyko I think?
-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
That is funny. I have been using a Nyko Memory card for my primary PS2 memory card for the last 6 years and it and my PS2 still function just fine.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
Random Tower: Game News and Commentary
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
Congratulations on luck. Now go buy me a lotto ticket.
-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
You need a lottery ticket... If I sum memory cards of all people living in my house (I live with a bunch of students) we have several PS2 Nyko mem cards, and they never failed... It is you that has a uncommon fortune...
criadordejogos.wordpress.com
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
Actually no, it wasn't an "uncommon fortune". The guy at the Funcoland told me that if I used it that it was going to wreck my system. Back then, yeah I would probably be on the side hoping that Datel kicks MS' ass with the rest of you. But then the memory card that the Funcoland said would ruin my system ruined my system. So I felt like an idiot since I told him that I thought he was just trying to get me to buy something more expensive and to mind his own buisiness.
-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
Again, your shitty memory card was not even by this company nitwit.
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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
Ass-goblin, did I ever state that my memory card was from this company? Try to point out where I said it was, go on, try. I'll be laughing my ass off at you while you attempt to do so.
-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
For the love of pete, I've bought more third party crap for my systems over the years then I can count, and for almost all of it, I've liked it better than the official merchandise that was twice the price.
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I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
And at one point I did buy lots of 3rd party crap like you do. Now I do not. When you start messing around with these cheap devices with thrown together hardware and shoved into a chintzy plastic shell you really are making a gamble. Between both my first hand experience along with horror stories I've heard from other people I've swore them off. And with how numerous those stories are I am quite shocked that 3rd party equipment is 100% safe and there is no gamble over that of official devices.
So anything by Nyko, Datel, MadCatz, or Pellican I steer far far away from.
-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
RROD, Blue-ray lasor failure, controller problems, ect ect. Yeah, the official merchandise is 100% safe.
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I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
Just because you own a Fiat doesn't mean you should go pouring sugar in the gas tank.
-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-
Re: Datel Slaps MSFT with Lawsuit Over 360 Accessory Lock ...
Bad analogy. Better one is:-
If you buy a Fiat, you don't have to have it fixed at a Fiat dealership.
However that analogy doesn't help your case :)