French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

December 7, 2009 -

In a ruling very similar to one handed down in Spain just last month, a French court has decreed that makers of Nintendo DS flash carts are not breaking the law.

French company Divineo was one of the defendants brought to court by Nintendo for making flash carts for the DS, which allow non-authorized games and media to be played on Nintendo’s handheld game system. The court ruled that the carts are legal and extend the usefulness of the DS, states MaxConsole.net.

The court also apparently took umbrage with Nintendo for “illegally” protecting its system and locking out users and developers, though it should be noted that the MaxConsole site, according to various sources, is owned by Max Louran, the same individual that heads Divineo.

This is not Louran’s first brush with console modification enforcers either: a 2007 GP story indicated some relation between Louran’s Divineo company and a firm (Supreme Factory Limited) at the center of a mod chip raid in Hong Kong.

Assentek, a fellow defendant in the case and also a manufacturer of console modifiers, was pleased with the ruling, but cautioned (Google translation):

However, in our view, this is probably a first episode in the general confrontation between France and Nintendo players in the world of gaming consoles including Assentek in particular.


|Via TechDirt|


Comments

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

Lets start a enw convo down here, and I will start with

Tell me this.... why should CP/IP owners tell you how to use the media and hardware you buy and back it up by law, why should they have the power to end fan sites,groups?Why should they ahev the right to sue or have taken down un infringing documentary/family anything,  Why should they have the power to do anything on a whim and get away with it? This is the reality we live in right now and its slowly getting worse.


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

Its not that they should, it's that they do.  They've had those rights since the time of the Greeks.  All pirates would have to do to get away with what they do is OBTAIN PERMISSION.  Because they don't, because they wouldn't, they break the law.

What I'll ask you is this.  Why should pirates have the power to do anything on a whim and get away with it?  This is the reality you seek, and people have been trying to get there, vis a vis the music and gaming industries, for two decades now.

---

He was dead when I got here.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

Depends on the whim and you are misconstruing things a bit, pirates of old were outlaws that did what outlaws done with the added benefit/cruse of living outside society completely but for raping, pillaging and fighting it.



Media piracy can be and YES can be broken down into 3 groups Those that can not(gain it or run it in their region,the untendedly ignored consumer) Those that do it just cause it fights the POWA!!11(the non consumer) and Those that do it for profit(the criminal), now you realize that media and information is both educational and inspirational you can not separate and dismiss what someone needs in order to be apart of the modern world, modern man is made and compelled to consume by strictly saying that you must consume media only through verified means removes a lot of the worlds population from attaining just cause they or their region do not have the licensing for it.



You want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and say you can not because it effects my bottom line I look at it from the whole picture and see the billions if not trillions the media industry as a whole brings in world wide and I have to say the industry can afford such leniency it however cannot afford people making money off their stuff without a license true  piracy like this should be treated like a drug crime with more than 10K in profit made off it all property is sized,5K+ all nonessentials(TV/computer/games/jewlery,shoes,ect) are taken .



Now there are instances where I am not so opposed to CP how it works now, if CP/IP lasted 5 years then it fell to public domain as far as trading goes that seems like a more perfect setup it gives a buffer to media to survive if it can not make it or dose well it can not be fully protected under the law, there are ways to make CP infinite  reduce the harmful effects to the public.



 What is your middle ground if I ask?



============================================




Heres my replies to the other messages above


==========================



Not missing the point.... all you can see is that people own X and because they own X they can do anything with it. THis mentally easily leads to owning thoughts and conversations.... you can not own the infinite.....




There are 2 bad guys in this and 2 innocents, corporations are one the conglomeration and monopolization of power can not be overlooked, but having greedy organizations creating counter fit stuff to sale to rob from the proper revenue stream hurting everyone who nears them is the other you seem to think that everything has to be protected from from fans,word of mouth and critics and even shearing and lending no matter what and to that I say BS, distribution is no longer solely based on profit.




As for the innocents the CP creator and common consumer get caught in the cross fire no matter what, one may lessen the stresses on the consumer but untill CP is completely overhauled to protect CP creators from corporate farms...... all we can realistically do is protect the masses some and give more tool to the indutry to weed out proper offenders not just anyone at random......



======================



Is it Jan 5th yet? theres still a chance they will get tossed or at least made reasonable.



The terminology is vague, even clips that are of a fair use nature are taken down daily because they can, this with the constant abuse from over zealous CP owners so I am siding with the spirit of fair use IE "if its not making money tis not in violation" make it that simple and as the world shrinks in 10-50 years you will have stuff that is legal and stuff that is not on the net and they will be able to get you much easier, perhaps not the end user but points of information. The more they bare down on it the worse it will be do it down and change the mentally of CP, you may not like it or see its worth but int he coming years it will be a better option than what is coming...



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There are countless youtube videos begin taken down due to over zealous take downs. We are not to far away from these things shifting to IRL fines for the media police. Joke all you want when the local governments can get their cut of fines and fees they will fall over them selfs coming up to the troff laid out by the industry.... just look at red light cameras and other crap....



Dude......you never did read the DMCA did you? yes ok I skimed it and got the highlights but still....



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modchip#Legality



The UK has also baned them its been baned in both for a few years now but more so in the last 3 or so in the US alot of sites will not ship to the US anymore even canadia and china ones and it bites I wanted to do a whacked out PS2.


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Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

Youtube video is not protected under Fair Use, because PERSONAL ENTERTAINMENT isn't protected by fair use.  Also, your link "proving" modchips are illegal in America explicitly says "due to the many diversified functions of a modchip, other laws may apply to a modchip as well," which falls squarely in line with the Betamax ruling discussed above.  A modchip cannot be made illegal in this country, because, just like the R4, Betamax players of old, DVD burners and VCRs, they have other uses outside of piracy.  Now, the UK banned them, but Europe has it's own problems as it's related to gaming.  They have a lot of things they need to figure out, and I would say a lot of them should come before mod chips.

Also, the spirit of Fair Use isn't "if it's not making money, it's not a violation."  The spirit of Fair Use is "we won't make you pay for something you need for school or work, so long as you don't copy the whole thing."  That's what I pointed out to you earlier.  Rarely would someone NEED a game or some music for school or work, but on the off chance they do, and they don't have what they need, the fair use laws apply.  That's why gaming magazines get free stuff, because under fair use, they don't have to pay for it, as they're critics as defined by fair use.

Now, as for your comment about missing the point, I get it.  You think that information should be seen by everyone, and you're right.  However, your model is extremely one-sided to the consumer, because now you're saying that games, music, books, movies, newspapers, magazines and internet access should all be free.  By extension, you say that gaming systems, music players, tv's and dvd players and computers should be free, too, as you cannot access most of that information without them.  You've pretty much destroyed the world economy, as some very expensive things are no longer being paid for, which means nobody's going to be able to afford to make them, which means millions of people worldwide lose their jobs, which means nobody makes the information you think should be free, or the products to display said information.  Not to mention all of the stores that would close because they can't afford to stay open from all of the lost revenue.

You ask what my middle ground is.  Well, here it is.  Change the CP length to 35 years.  Five years is too short, as games and music are the only media types that don't keep making money after the short term.  As I hope you know, CP extends far beyond gaming, so a CP model based on gaming wouldn't work.  On top of this, step up the prosecution of pirates, but make these in criminal courts, not civil ones.  The reason why Tenenbaum got such a high fine and was then offered a settlement is because she was tried in civil court.  Make piracy cases criminal, involving jail time and actual fines.  This does a few things - it keeps your evil corporations out of the mix, forces the State to show evidence against her (that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing) and give a clear, unbiased estimate of fines, while also scaring potential pirates with a prison sentance.  In Tenenbaums case, she most likely wouldn't have been charged with god-knows-how-many charges of piracy, she would likely have been charged with one.  On the other side, make people that share media on a wide scale (for profit or not for profit) pay a guild set up for each type of media.  This model already exists for radio.  Radio stations pay a guild (I don't remember the name) fees every year for the use of the music they play, and they in turn pay the artist a pro-rated amount of those fees based on the artist's popularity.  A similar thing could be done for games.  Sites that charge users a fee, such as iTunes, Napster and others, would pay X dollars to particular guilds (movies and TV to SAG, music to the same ones radio uses, and then we'd make one for gaming), and these guilds would distribute the money to their members based on the popularity of each download.  Nonpaying sites, such as Limewire or (formally) the Pirate Bay, or people looking to start their own free distribution site, would pay more, as they'd be the more popular choice due to free downloads.  What this would do would be to put a legal blacklist on these sites, making them and their members all but untouchable as it relates to piracy, allowing us to go against those who still feel the need to break the law.  It would also make sure IP owners are getting paid what they're due, while all but eliminating the need for hard DRM.

If there's anyone that has a problem with this, you're an idiot or a pirate.

---

He was dead when I got here.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

But it has been made illegal as has anything that circumvents copy protection and there are cases where it was targeted, like hentai manga with kids in it while rare it has been and we are on the slippery moral slope looking for the next thing to ban....

 

"If there's anyone that has a problem with this, you're an idiot or a pirate."

Or someone who dose not believe in the absolution of religion or copy right.......

 

Fighting everyone to protect copy right/IP is a losing battle and you know it draw the line and deal with the real threats not fans being fans....


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

Did you even read my post?  I'm guessing that, since you think I'm "fighting everyone," you didn't read a damned word of it.  My whole post was about changing all of media's distribution to boil modern piracy to nothing more than a crime, so people still get the media they want cheap or even free, and IP owners get their due.  Also, "fans being fans" is not piracy.  If they were, they wouldn't use the lines "I wouldn't pay for it at that price," "I don't like that company, but I want that game, so I'll just pirate it," or "the game was buggy, so I won't pay it."  Where, in any of those old piracy saws, do you see anything about "I'm a fan of that company/game?"

Also, what the fuck does any of this have to do with religion?

Finally, pornography, even animated pornography such as hentai, cannot legally have children in a lot of modern countries.  Japan has some sort of cultural thing, but most other nations don't allow it.  That's because SEX WITH CHILDREN IS ILLEGAL.  Get used to that, because that's never going to change in this country, and it's not just America's social stigma.  The world in general sees that as sick and depraved shit.  If you really want to see that, you'll just have to accept the fact that it costs a plane ticket to Japan or a trip to prison.

---

He was dead when I got here.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

This is a good thing. Really. Nintendo provides no facility for running custom/homebrew software nor do they provide any media playing facilities for the DS. And it's not Nintendo's DS, it's yours. You paid for it, you should be able to do what you please with it.

Now with all that said, I don't support the use of mods/flash carts to play infringed software. That's just not right (unless of course, the game is out of print or unavailable on the used market).

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

Indeed, ROM usage should be legal if you cannot, under any circumstances, acquire a game title. Esepcially arcade games that no longer exist.

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

The problem is that, even if every game ever made was available for a reasonable price on every system, pirates would still pirate.  What do you say to that?

---

He was dead when I got here.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

JDF



Tradeing information should be a right but making money off it not so much, you will always have piracy of which people transcending their dvds is a  crime under the DMCA not to mention a ton of other stuff that is just plain silly to enforce. The more you go after it the more trouble with it you will have....... make it so only profiters who infringe on profit are went after not everyone else who's just trading crap and not making money from it.



Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

Trading information that is owned by someone else is not and should not be a right, unless and until all money is abolished.  As long as money is required to feed, house, clean and clothe the people of the Earth, what I make is still mine, unless I choose to sell it outright.  If I allow certain people to copy it for sale, that's different than having someone copy it and give it away without my permission.  When you can explain how you can prove someone traded my game for money, much less how anyone has the right to give away what I created, I might be able to understand.

---

He was dead when I got here.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

 

One can not own something that is infinite, one can only own the finite IE you can own profit rights but atemping to place a strangle hold over how information is spread not so much...

If one creates something it shall be at the mercy of the world not contrived laws that are bought and forged by monopolies so they do not have to change so they do not have to work to keep the people interested in their wares. You can not stop it but you can marginalize it by giving the end user more rights.

Also.... if someone is making unlicensed money the IRS will want to have a talk with them....


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

If downloading music didn't kill the music industry, I fail to see how this will kill the game industry, however, I will concede that I iwll buy at the least until we start seeing game developers on MTV Cribs.

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

The best thing to happen to the music industry in years was  all the downloading, all that shearing made some bands and killed some others because their stuff sucked, being forced to compete with youerself forces a industry to change gears and try to provide better prices better options, and if you make it so CP/IP can be freely used and traded in free environments you create enough friction to force change allow them to monopolize and control every aspect of it you get 100+ year copy rights that will put people in jail for daring to take a picture of it without a signature in triplicate....


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

Not to mention it kinda revealed many bands' true colors. It showed many fans that the artists didn't didn't give two shits about them and were just in it for the money.

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

Vive le France!

I think the commentors who were this will legitimize piracy have a good argument. Some pirates are going to take this as a sign of legitimization. That is unfortunate. It doesn't change the fact that IMO this is a victor for gamers. This is a court saying "Hey, company, you've gone just a tad to far in dictating what people can do with their own property."

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

Most pirates already feel that stealing games is their right and there is nothing wrong with it- lawsuit or no.

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

Even if this device were wiped from the earth, pirates always find another way. Destroying these devices doesn't stp them, DRM is usually cracked in under a week if not sooner... they need ot start punishing the actual pirates for a change.

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

Yeah, but when companies try to do that they get sued, and people on GP all try to defend the pirates by claiming that they shouldn't ban someone for violating a TOS.

---

He was dead when I got here.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

JDF

I have no problem them banning the unit or wipeing the account thats mroe than reasoanble but when they get in my pants and inspect theings and tell me I have illect hardware ands end the cops after me, the line needs to be drawn soewhere as the corps want it in the middle of the bed and the back of the skull........


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

What the fuck are you talking about?  Nintendo didn't send the cops after anyone, and neither did Microsoft.  Nintendo sought an injunction against the maker of the R4, due to piracy.  Microsoft banned Xbox's from connecting to XBL.  The police weren't involved in either case.  Nintendo didn't even focus on people who already own an R4 and Microsoft was sued by those who were banned for piracy.

My comment about the GP people defending the pirates was about all of the hate for Microsoft after GP broke the story about the lawsuit against Microsoft.  It didn't matter that they were banned for piracy.  It didn't matter that they violated the EULA.  It didn't matter that they didn't lose anything they paid for, only access to an optional service on a particular machine.  The board was flooded with comments denouncing the evil of Microsoft.  How dare they enforce the rules they made that those poor people agreed to and then violated?

If you're referring to Tenenbaum, the police went after her, after many warnings and cease-and-desist orders.  She was the stupid one who kept on violating the law after being warned that they'd take her in.  It's her own fault in more ways than one.

---

He was dead when I got here.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

JDF

What the fuck are you talking about in the US mod chips are illegal and a crime.I am not refering to nin,MS or live as much as the the laws based from the DMCA laws that are enforced randomly and mostly on easy targets, you've not seen what the DMCA has done to user rights have you?


Currently the system has to much vague power, tapeing yourself singing a song, tapeing your kid danceing to a tune these are now crimes you can be sued over.


And it will only get worse as they grasp and fondle for more power over every single instance of CP/IP.


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

You either need to post a link to somebody being arrested for taping themselves singing, as that's done by millions of people every day, or you need to shut up because you don't have a clue what you're talking about.  Also, mod chips are not illegal in the United States.  If they were, Microsoft would never have been sued, as the people suing them would be admiting to violating the law.

---

He was dead when I got here.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

As much as I'm in favor of consumer rights, this news is bitter for me:  The vast majority of the people this ruling helps are those who think it's their right to steal whatever they please.

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

Perhaps one should learn a little about the Betamax Ruling. Surely making something legal that can easily be used to copy and distribute copyrighted works will be detremental to the media industries, right?

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/EphriamKnight/20091116/3544/Of_Betamax_an...

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

Are you seriously saying that most owners of things like the R4 are using it for anything other than downloading ROMs for free?  Videotapes are hardly a decent comparison because the internet wasn't around to avail content so easily.

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

What I am saying is directly quoted from the Betamax ruling:

The question is thus whether the Betamax is capable of commercially significant noninfringing uses. In order to resolve that question, we need not explore all the different potential uses of the machine and determine whether or not they would constitute infringement. Rather, we need only consider whether, on the basis of the facts as found by the District Court, a significant number of them would be noninfringing.

Even if it were deemed that home-use recording of copyrighted material constituted infringement, the Betamax could still legally be used to record noncopyrighted material or material whose owners consented to the copying. An injunction would deprive the public of the ability to use the Betamax for this noninfringing off-the-air recording.

Whatever the future percentage of legal versus illegal home-use recording might be, an injunction which seeks to deprive the public of the very tool or article of commerce capable of some noninfringing use would be an extremely harsh remedy, as well as one unprecedented in copyright law.

emphasis mine.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

One could make the argument that it wasen't as easy to pirate a copyright stuff in the betamax days as it is today. After all the more easier it is to do the more people will do it.

http://www.magicinkgaming.com/

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

It isn't about the ease of piracy, it is about this:

The question is thus whether the Betamax is capable of commercially significant noninfringing uses. In order to resolve that question, we need not explore all the different potential uses of the machine and determine whether or not they would constitute infringement. Rather, we need only consider whether, on the basis of the facts as found by the District Court, a significant number of them would be noninfringing.

Obviously the judges in this case and the one in Spain, recognize that mod chips/carts have significant noninfringing uses that prevent them from being completely blocked from trade.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

True, but there is a slight difference.  A television company never was required to make it so televisions were able to connect to a Betamax/VCR/DVD player.  It could be implied that Nintendo is going to be forced to allow these products to work on their systems, with the comment made by the judge that Nintendo' attempts to prevent these products from working were "illegal."

---

He was dead when I got here.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

Considering details are a bit incomplete as I have not read the ruling and since I don't read French have to rely on Google Transalations of the linked articles, the judge merely ruled that Nintendo could not block the devices from sale.

But considering the EU's history of Anit Trust rulings, it could be implied that if this case or similar cases were to be brought in front of the EU that such a ruling could be handed down.

But yes TV manufacturers were not forced to make sure VCRs could be connected, they could not block VCRs from the market. That is the main point. TV manufacturers could have made changes on a yearly basis to the inputs. but we probably have an idea of how that would have turned out.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

There's another difference, too, as EU rulings of late could be interpreted in a way to suggest that any attempt to prevent these devices from being compatible in the future with the DS is anti-competitive.  I mean, if they can say that including IE with a Microsoft operating system is akin to monopoly, couldn't they claim a software update making a product unusable on the DS akin to anti-competition?  People would paid for the devices in question would cry foul, just like HB whiners do every time there's a Wii update, or all of the people who's Xbox Live accounts were shut down/deactivated/whatever.  The only difference is that in the EU, they will side with pirates and thieves every time if the opponent is a corporation.

---

He was dead when I got here.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

I am sorry but CP should stop at profit, modchips,ect fall outside the mainstream where they make thier money.

 

AS for stealing, you can not steal thought or word you can only "steal" it when you make an illicit profit off it, other wise its fans being fans.


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

Unless i'm missing something (always possible) we aren't talking about stealing word or thought, we're talking about stealing video games, which is a physical object created by people.

Furthermore, are you stating that pirating is not stealing due to the fact that i don't make a monetary profit off it? I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, i'm just having a hard time interpreting exactly what you mean.

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

Media defaults to experience which defaults to word and thought, should it be "protected" yes but not in the horrible way they are doing it now.
IMO copy right/IP should only be protected up to illicit profit is made, be it donations,ad rev or direct sale these things require a license  from the CP/IP onwer, mere distribution in any amount is fans being fans no matter what.


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

What about the woman in Minnesota who got busted with all of that music she was giving away?  Because nobody paid her for it, she should just be allowed to get away with that?  I mean, yeah, a multi-million dollar judgement against her was out of line, but she said it didn't matter what they made her pay, she'd declare bankruptcy.

Zip, there are people who will infringe CP just to do it.  Are you saying that there are some people who should be allowed to break the law while others are held accountable?

---

He was dead when I got here.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

See my above reply to you.

I do not feel CP/IP should be invoked unless someone is selling it( via direct sale or paying for it via ads or donations) without a license then and only then should it be absolutely controled by the CP/IP owner.


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

But that doesn't solve anything other than for-profit piracy, which, even the big corporations know isn't the majority.  The majority is people who take games for their own personal use without paying for them.  Your plan doesn't address that in any way.  In fact, your plan creates a legal loophole allowing it.

---

He was dead when I got here.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

Trading and shearing information/media freely should be a right and was a right under fair use with some exemptions until the DMCA came along, the corporations  have all the power and money they are able to go after anyone for anything with little repercussion, what I am getting at you remove the profit from shearing and you reduce it greatly in the legal world and the legal world grows by the day so consumers need real protection from the might of the industry making it so things can be freely traded and legalize hardware mods all of that make it so people are protected if they want it, its an option a choice a last line of defence.

 

The Tenenbaum case is a joke the RIAA had a horrable case and only won becuse they had the money keep sueing. Now if she was selling the stuff she downlaoded she should be sued for that not merely downlaoding  it!!

 


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

It was never a right to share copyrighted material with thousands of people.  It was also never a right to take something you didn't pay for "because I wouldn't have paid what they asked anyway."  Nobody has a right to play video games anyway.  The only reason that people have games to pirate is because companies sell them.

I have about 130 gb of music on my computer.  Are you telling me that it should be totally legal for me to e-mail all of them to all six billion-plus people on the planet?  That's insane.  It's also exactly what you think should be made legal.

Tenenbaum was sued because she intentionally distributed the music, not because she downloaded it.  The police had the records to prove it.  She's the one who appealed, not the RIAA, and remember, they offered her a $2000 settlement, and she told them to fuck off.  No jury in the world is going to let her get off scott free, nor will they lower her monetary responsibility to anything less than five figures.  You just don't want to accept the fact that, at least as it's related to Tenenbaum, RIAA is actually the good guy.

---

He was dead when I got here.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

But it was a right under fair use you had rights that over ridden the powers CP owners have, there were exemptions like older harder to find out of print stuff but we did at one time have those rights.



Yes it should be legal for you to email 6 billion friends all your songs....but don't come whining to me when your ISP sues you into the ground for abuse of service, also most email has a 10MB cap...



Tenenbaum was sued becuse she was an easy target, sorry the RIAA is never the good guy


http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/20745.cfm



they side with bad logic 90% of the time.



Hopefully the fines will be tossed out.



Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

The fines won't be tossed out.  She broke the law and gave the finger to the people who offered her an easy way out.  Both of that will count against her.

Also, your fair use argument doesn't pertain to games or music.  Section 107 of the fair use laws contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.  Sending songs and games to your friends isn't fair use, unless every pirate can show their press cards or teaching degrees, which I doubt.  This has been in place since 1961, long before the RIAA or EA and Microsoft.

Nice try, Zip.

 

---

He was dead when I got here.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

Even pirating a copy for personal use means you profit off it, because you have money that you didn't spend on a game because you pirated it.

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

DS

You are not makeing money by wasteing time trying to find free stuff....


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

that's why i decided to specifically word it with Monetary profit, i assumed that's what he meant.

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

 

In order to make a profit off something you have to gain substantially from it, buy pirating console games you lose access to some features and can be baned from the service as well as lose warranty rights on a 200+ unit. For PC gaming  you have to deal with bad cracks ad hacks that make the game unstable and other issues, since time and and money is being spent you can not gain substantially from it. Also if you lock out all forms of fandom other than free IE the service is paid for by the person or groups own out of pocket money.


If you focus on profit you get rid of most forms of illicit profit making freeing up the market to focus on the consumer, if the consumer want's it all free then they are not the target audience the industry is going for. The majority will always consume from the normal industry driven troff making it compete with it self as to a small degree will make it better by allowing wider and deeper commentary, parody and library class archiving it will temper the industry to use the best of the fan made stuff as it seeks to reuse all the CP/IP it can because this media industry can not make anything new without a mold and approval from on high.

I am not for piracy as much as I am for breaking the redundant and vomit laced regurgitation of modern medium, the way CP, IP, patents ,erct have been raped and beaten by the upper echelon's of society we have no balance right now we have legalized mobs that can bully the public with little to no reprisal, but if you make it so CP can be freely(and I mean freely) distributed in any form (youtube bad because it runs on ads and deals with the industry, someones home made fan page has no restrictions, someones members subscription based site is no different that a seller on the street with no license you get fined and possible jail time same for anythign under the jurisdiction of the world conglomerated nations)  what I would like to see is anything that makes an active substantial profit IE situations where money is NOT being spent on blanks,hardware,mods,higher/faster internet  data lines,ect but where people are gaining money off ofunlicensed GOODS/SERVICES be punished.

Theres a fine line here saving money dose not equate to getting an extra 10-10000 a month a day a week, its that money that dose direct harm to the industry as its lines the pockets counterfeiters who care nothing of quality or shearing information, its far easier for them to counterfeit and make large sums of money off it than for the average jog to get ALL his media needs for free.

This is my line of thought please debunk it if you wish, I am sure there are pot holes all over the place. =^^=


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

No.  "Profit" means a net gain.  If, instead of spending sixty dollars for a game, I illegally procure a copy for free, I have a net gain - therefore, a profit - of sixty dollars.

---

He was dead when I got here.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

Mmm if used sale is tossed out completely maybe I could see it, profit in this instance only means making money, saving money by getting it legleally cheaper or questionably free not so much. Perhaps I should say direct profit but that leans in the direction of as long as money is made.
You are looking at this from the perspective of the consumer/end user I am looking at it from the perspective of the sharer the distributor, one can distributed IE share anything as long as they are making no profit off it, when profit is made the CP/IP owner has the ability to control who/what/how.

You see you limit the way it can be sold meaning no counterfeiters who make money only for them selfs those not part of the industry, with the assistance of government/law enforcement you limit distribution to types that do not generate money from it. This means no ads no donations only licensed direct sale. With this setup you would refine media distribution to legit industry supported types, places that are beyond the law and you and me if or anyone else who wanted to be a fan be a critic be a hippie  and use the CP/IP freely with no C&D or TD's and just be left alone by the industry doing it is whatever we want until we start making money off the project.

Dose this make any more sense?

 

 


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

No, Zip, it still doesn't, because you're not really solving the issue at all either.  You're basically saying that someone can commit piracy as long as that person doesn't make money off of it.  Hate to break it to you, but that won't dent piracy, as people pirate without a sale all the time.  You're trying to expand the distribution model, which is a good thing, but you aren't solving the problem of piracy.  You're basically making a legal loophole that allows it.

---

He was dead when I got here.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: French Court Rules in Favor of Mod Chip Maker

Shearing,lending,ect is not piracy, sorry it just is not. You've not been paying attention to the evolution of law and  the treaties they are making to impose absolute CP/IP law so they can insure to bully and abuse the public however they wish.

 

Its simple you focus on profit not savings not distribution just profit if it is making money for someone CP/IP owners should have control over it, this with the new world oder will make it so most of the net is flushed of illegitimate sites..


It also seems that you think information/media is finite like a chair or a car and you'd rather have 100+ year copy rights and CP/IP owners who can sue people for having an image of their stuff in their family photos and videos... what I am suggesting is one part of a main overhaul of how the world deals with CP/IP, as long as people can freely trade copy rights can last forever(which they already do) it wont effect the people but if you give so much power to the media mafia they will abuse it because they can and the people will have a hard time abusing a setup like this because they have to pay for it out of pokect.

 

You see you balance the issue until neither side is happy :P


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

 
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quiknkoldso in a change of subject to something much lighter, who here is getting the Amiibos? I have 4 preordered.10/21/2014 - 7:02am
TechnogeekFor a change of pace, here's a story about death threats aimed at games industry employees via Twitter that has nothing whatsoever to do with Gamergate: http://kotaku.com/indie-dev-threatens-gabe-newell-has-game-removed-from-164867886910/21/2014 - 4:38am
MechaCrashThey aren't being held accountable because *this is what GamerGate is really about.* Hatred and harassment under a thin veneer of concern for ethics; it's a rotten movement right down to the core. Related: http://tinyurl.com/o5mamgn10/21/2014 - 1:53am
james_fudgeodd why would they delete pro vita comments?10/21/2014 - 12:50am
Neo_DrKefkaI am a little disturbed that members of #GamerGate are supporting and not holding its same members accountable when they say remarks that are unacceptable!10/20/2014 - 11:39pm
Neo_DrKefkaSome #GamerGate people are defending @kingofpol many are however lashing out at him but if we held Sam Biddle accountable and Gawker so must we hold @kingofpol and #GamerGate10/20/2014 - 11:30pm
Neo_DrKefkaA big name in the Gamergate movement Kingofpol uses a offensive term about autistic people and in turn the entire GamerGate community lashes out at him. We do not need false leaders who think they can say anything https://twitter.com/Kingofpol10/20/2014 - 11:07pm
Papa MidnightMP, honestly, I'm struggling to make heads or tales of the events being outlined in that reddit thread. I've never heard of Siliconera before, either.10/20/2014 - 10:48pm
MaskedPixelantehttp://www.reddit.com/r/vita/comments/2jbn6u/former_siliconera_moderator_leaks_screenshots_of/ Siliconera mods accused of deleting user comments that were pro Vita.10/20/2014 - 9:23pm
quiknkoldhttp://www.diamondbackonline.com/opinion/article_3fbc52ec-57eb-11e4-ba91-0017a43b2370.html10/20/2014 - 9:16pm
Neo_DrKefkaId love to see people come 2gether whether your 4 or against gamergate to gather 2gether and support an anti bullying charity and I would love to see a pro and anti gamegate debate on a neutral platform that promotes discussion and solutions10/20/2014 - 8:33pm
Neo_DrKefkaWhen someone was seriously hurt by a violent altercation. They have a prospective that people who have not had this experience lack. Bullying is a serious issue10/20/2014 - 8:30pm
Papa MidnightStraw Man to the fullest, but it gets the point across.10/20/2014 - 8:26pm
Papa Midnighthttp://i.imgur.com/dw0YPon.png10/20/2014 - 8:25pm
quiknkoldby doing something, Charitable Donations is an example.10/20/2014 - 8:06pm
quiknkoldAndrew : I dont accept any worded apology unless I can look the person in the eye when they say it. For me, he'd either have to make a video so I could read his bodylanguage, or actually do something. actions speak louder than words.10/20/2014 - 8:04pm
quiknkoldwell if they are looking for social pollution, Twitter is a great breeding ground for it. Its a breeding ground for deviance.10/20/2014 - 8:03pm
Andrew Eisenquiknkold - He had three tweets worth of apology the following day.10/20/2014 - 8:00pm
quiknkoldyou know, people keep saying Biddle's comment was sarcasm, but the thing is, Sarcasm doesnt translate well in Tweets. I took his words as really hateful, and unless I see an honest apology, I'm not going to be happy with him.10/20/2014 - 7:38pm
Matthew WilsonI doubt it will change much.10/20/2014 - 7:21pm
 

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