Game Writer in Border Dispute

December 14, 2009 -

Science Fiction author Peter Watts (pictured), whose work has also appeared in videogames, was detained at the U.S./Canadian border last week after a dispute with U.S. Customs officers.

The Toronto-based author was returning to Canada, reports the Times Herald, using the Blue Water Bridge crossing when he was apparently selected for a random inspection.

This is where the story takes two different tangents depending on which side is offering the account.

Watts asserts that as the inspection began, he exited the car to ask officers what was going on. He claims they asked him to return to the car, at which point he asked them again what they were doing. Watts said that this act then resulted in him being assaulted, punched in the face, pepper-sprayed and thrown in jail for the night on charges of assaulting a customs officer.

Custom officials claim that Watts was “aggressive” from the beginning and refused to get back in his car. At this point Watts was about to be handcuffed, but resisted arrest said officials, and tried to choke an officer. This is when officers used pepper-spray.

Watts was arraigned last Wednesday, December 9, and released on $5,000 bond. He claims his computer was seized and he was released across the border in shirtsleeves.

On his blog, Watts categorically denies choking an officer and says he “looks forward” to seeing security camera footage of the incident. He is due back in court on December 22 for a preliminary injunction. If convicted, Watts faces up to two years in jail and/or a $2,000 fine.

BoingBoing’s Cory Doctrow has jumped to Watts' defense, donating $1,000 to his legal defense.

Watts contributed to Relic Entertainment’s Homeworld 2 and also served as a writer and art consultant for Crytek on the upcoming Crysis 2.


Comments

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

"I fail to see your point."

I'll see if I can dumb it down for you.  If you get out of your car without the police telling you to, that tells them that you are a threat.  On top of that, the police claim he assaulted one of them.  That will get you beat up and arrested.  What AL, Valdearg and I are saying is that A) this whole situation may have been avoided had he stayed in the car, and B) if he did assault a federal agent, he got what's coming to him.  The accusation isn't that this happened solely because he got out of his car and didn't go back in, but because he assaulted a federal agent.  If this did happen, it may have happened before they had the chance to resolve this peaceably.  Would you suggest that a law enforcement officer should not defend his or herself?  Your posts seem to allude to this train of thought.

Also, your last point is as meaningless as it is asinine.  Only an idiot would get out of the car and demand to know why he was stopped by the police.  That's our whole point of contention here.

If anyone is truly dismissive here, it's those defending this guy, because they all seem to forget that he's accused of assaulting a federal agent, which they contend is WHY he was beat up.  We're just saying that law enforcement shouldn't be judged until it's found out that they actually committed a crime.  You know, that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing.

---

You KILL Vampires. You don't DATE them.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

Do you just get used to doing whatever it is the police tell you where you live? I guess that must be the fundamental difference here -- I always grew up understanding that the police have no right to detain you or order you about unless they have some sort of probable cause to.

Random searches are dubious at best; they circumvent the idea of probably cause. (And how do you determine random? On a whim, by interval or maybe the just roll some dice?) So; you know, if you live somewhere where the police aren't a superior class of citizen not to be questioned, you might want to know what the hell is happening when they decend on you. We don't all have the benefit of living in a police state, we don't all know how to properly submit to any and all authority figures.

"Only an idiot would get out of the car and demand to know why he was stopped by the police."
Unless the whole thing seemed baseless -- random maybe? I can relate to it. And I won't disagree that it was a bad idea. My issue is with how these border guard responded; even their version of the story sounds over the top.

But I swear, I'm going to have to visit the states and rent a cop outfit. Apparently if you wear a badge you can do whatever you want down there.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

Police can be questioned, if you ACTUALLY HAVE EVIDENCE OF WRONGDOING.  I'd love to know where you live, to be able to go up to a cop like some wannabe gangster and not have him clock you in the face.

Oh, and please come to the US wearing a cop outfit in public, because I'd love to see you get sent to prison for impersonating a police officer, not to mention (depending on where you're from and what you were doing when you were arrested) suspicion of terrorist activities.

---

You KILL Vampires. You don't DATE them.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

"I'd love to see you get sent to prison for impersonating a police officer"
Oh, but it'd never happen. No one would know who I was, and they'd have no evidence that I *wasn't* a cop, and as you said, Police can only be questioned when you have evidence of wrongdoing.

I'm also pretty amused that you think I'd be arrested for suspicion of terrorism. I guess because I'm clearly not from the US, I must be from... oh, the middle east. Probably brown skinned, with a thick accent and a shaggy beard. I bet I even wear a turban, right? That's the profile isn't it? All in the name of national security, oh yeah.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

"they'd have no evidence that I *wasn't* a cop"

All someone would have to do is ask to see your ID.  A police officer that didn't recognize you, perhaps.  You know, since this is a police state and all, we have the ability to look that info up.  You'd be found out within twenty minutes, jackass.

As for your final comment, unless you were clearly white, you would be arrested on suspicion of terrorism.  That's an extension of the powers brought on by the Patriot Act, was to redefine impersonating a police officer.  There really isn't a lot of reasons to do that here anymore.

---

You KILL Vampires. You don't DATE them.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

"All someone would have to do is ask to see your ID"
Questioning a police officer! Excellent, time for the pepper spray. Do you not see the irony here? I mean; it's clear that the message takes some time to sink in, but I'm happy to make further childish analogies. It's like linguistic limbo.

"unless you were clearly white"
Nationality, of course, doesn't matter. You know what's great? Living in a country where enshrining racism and discrimination in law is abhored. I guess you wouldn't know what that's like.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

"If anyone is truly dismissive here, it's those defending this guy, because they all seem to forget that he's accused of assaulting a federal agent, which they contend is WHY he was beat up.  We're just saying that law enforcement shouldn't be judged until it's found out that they actually committed a crime.  You know, that whole 'innocent until proven guilty' thing."

Despite your claim to being objective, it's clear you give more weight to the officers' claims than the citizen's claims. Otherwise you'd be saying the citizen is the one presumed innocent, as he is the one actually being accused under the law.

You call on people to reserve their judgment, but what you're really saying is for people to reserve their criticism of the officers until it's proved absolutely that they did something wrong. Feh.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

Yet you're the one who's not even considering the fact that he MAY have done something wrong to deserve what happened.

---

You KILL Vampires. You don't DATE them.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

I think you might be missing the point that he is Canadian. Not an American Citizen. There are subtle but important differences. He never took a state sponsored driver's program. He is not a US Citizen. Some of the standards and laws between the two countries are blurred a bit.

Yes I happen to agree, that sitting in your car is probably the best thing. However up in Canada, we are not required to do so. Most of us do the common sense (should be renamed as good sense, because it is not that common) response of sitting down and shutting up. However here, we are able to exit and walk around. However if we get aggressive that is a different story :)

However placing an expectation that he should follow State laws and advice given from US Driver's schools might be a little much considering he is from a different country with different rules.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

I've always gone by the rule of 'when I'm in another country, I try to obey the laws and not antagonize officers, and treat them like they were LEO's from my own country.'  Obviously, this doesn't apply in countries where the police are completely corrupt or where there is no government run police force (South America and a good bit of Africa, plus some rural Asian areas). 

In Canada, do you commonly get out of the car when pulled over by the police?  Do you get out and go back there and talk to them?  Somehow, I doubt this very much.  I understand there's a difference in culture here, but I doubt the difference is that big.

But I could be wrong; I've never been pulled over for speeding in Canada.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

And normally (in the past) border patrol agents were trained with this kind of knowledge.  While foriegn citizens are expected to obey US laws, agents generally knew which ones would come as a surprise and thus handle 'oh, I was not aware' situations calmly and professionally. 

But during the Bush erra they hired waves of new agents, trained them poorly, and upped the stress levels by changing the focus.  So the newer agents are more likely to not be aware of what people do and do not know and, frankly, they tend to care a lot less.  After all, they just got moved up from a powerless possition to significant authority, why should they be polite and professional?  

I know plenty of people who have been traveling in and out of the country for decades, both as US citizens and forien... and many of them simply refuse to cross US borders now because stuff like this is getting increasingly common.  Guys like this are famous enough to get some press, but the events are far from unique.  Even Isreal, which has some of the strictest customs and checkpoint systems in the world, tends to be more pleasent and professional then the US is right now.  They also train the hell out of their agents.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

I was wondering how long it would take some liberal douchebag to somehow blame this on former President Bush.  I'm actually surprised it lasted this long.

---

You KILL Vampires. You don't DATE them.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

And this is why people do not take you or your arguments seriously.

I did not even 'blame bush', but pointed out that during Bush's presidency, in order to fill various mandates,  the border patrol was both expanded with less trained people (budget did not keep up with hiring mandates or timetables) and focus changed.    Peronsally I blame scared voters and the theater it took to make them feel 'safe'.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

You blamed President Bush outright.  Your comment stated that this wouldn't have happened, until Bush's policies came into effect.  That's blaming him for this.

---

You KILL Vampires. You don't DATE them.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

Actually, boarder inspections as well as TSA authority did increase drastically, and in some cases unconstitutionally, under Bush.  It's not liberalism to state the truth.  You can give the reasoning of "terrorism" and the typically rhetoric for why we must forego some rights to be more "safe," but that doesn't change the fact that the authority was increased. 

If you want some semblence of balancing bias here, simply state that Obama hasn't done jack shit to reduce the increase or address the problems caused by it.  There you go.  Truth, and this time in your favor.  Countering with logical arguments rather than calling someone a liberal douchebag is how adults are supposed to argue.  Then again, once things become partisan I rarely find someone who'll act like an adult.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

There's a difference between saying that Bush's policies extended the scope of border patrol and the TSA and saying that Bush caused this particular incident.  The poster's comment suggested the latter.  That's where my comment came from.

---

You KILL Vampires. You don't DATE them.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

So what do canadian manuals say?

While he was on american soil, he was a canadian citizen, with a canadian lisecne, canadian tags, and going into a boarder region staffed by people who are trained to interact with people who don't know all customs involving police and the US.

It should also be noted that since they were not at customs, the border patrol has no authority to search his car without a warent (since random searches do not usually meet the standard of probable cause).  All he is legally required to do is display his lisence and registration.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

It doesn't matter if he had a Canadian license.  He's on American soil, so American driving laws apply.  Therefore, he should have stayed in his car until told to get out. 

---

You KILL Vampires. You don't DATE them.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

I don't know.  Find me a Canadian manual; I'm not really sure where they would be.  Preferably, one in English.

As for their authority to search the car, if he said that they could search the car, then he gave them the authority.  And, seeing as they got into his car without breaking any windows, I have a sneaking feeling that he did.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

Except that judging by the article, he was not asked if they could search his car. Otherwise he wouldn't be getting out of the car to ask what was going on, and the police report would have likely included the information that he'd given permission for a search.

-Gray17

-Gray17

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

I don't know where you're from, but in the United States, if a LEO pulls you over, you don't do anything until they tell you.  That includes getting out of your car.  Now, if he really didn't do anything other than openly question the officers and they beat him up for it, they're in the wrong, but he's still an idiot for getting out of his car before being told to do so.

---

You KILL Vampires. You don't DATE them.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

Lovely.  Let the ad hominem begin.  Watts said this:

"I can state categorically that I did not choke anybody, I did not use profanity and did not raise my voice, I did not initiate any physical contact,"

Getting out of the car is not bright, but it's not aggressive either.  I would have been unaware that these searches happen and would have reacted similarly.  They're supposed to tell you what's going on.  Watts has stated that no information was given, he was just pulled over and they started rifling.

Stupid as it may be, it doesn't merit being hit and pepper sprayed, if that's what indeed happened. The tape will tell.

"It is absolutely okay for Walmart to inspect your receipt, especially if you just set off the detectors."

Who said anything about detectors?  Have you not had the experience of them requiring the checking of your bag even though they just watched you walk from the cashier?  I have.  I don't like being treated like a criminal by someone who JUST WATCHED me pay for my stuff.  This is a legitimate use of power?

"However, NEITHER OF THESE SITUATIONS IS SIMILAR, and you're an idiot for attempting such a comparison."

They are similar because it's about what rights are.  Why are you so willing to give them up?

EDIT TO RESPOND TO YOUR EDIT:

"Customs periodically stops Canada-bound vehicles and inspects them before they cross into Ontario, Smith said."

Smith is offering a very different view of what happened. Again, we'll see when the tapes come out.

I expect this would be news to most Canucks.  I've never been inspected or even been aware that this happened.  If I'm leaving your country, is it not the job of the border agents on the country you're going to to inspect you? I'm saying Watts "alleged" reaction isn't that far out, is it?

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

If your questions and statements weren't so moronic, it wouldn't be so easy to insult you.

Getting out of your car is absolutely aggressive.  On top of that, most police officers know that there's no good reason for someone to get out of their car during a stop, and that such a move is common among individuals intent on, say, stabbing or shooting police and/or fleeing the scene.  An individual outside of their car is absolutely a threat to the life of a police officer.  When their life is threatened by an individual who is acting belligerently, they absolutely have the right to pepper spray the individual to get some level of compliance; that's why officers have pepper spray. 

Somehow, I don't believe that he wasn't told what they'd be doing.  How did they get into his car?  Did they smash the windows and open the door?  Or did they tell him they were going to check his car, and he unlocked the door?  

Do you realize that people who steal from WalMart have, in the past, made small purchases, and then slipped the more expensive and stolen articles into the bag, thus prompting WalMart to check the bags of shoppers?  I know, you probably don't care, but its their right to inspect your bag, and if you don't like it, you can shop elsewhere.  WalMart has a high incidence of shoplifting, and they're trying to put a stop to it. 

Your scenarios bear no similarity to this situation at all, and you're an idiot for clinging to that claim.

 

 

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

"I know, you probably don't care, but its their right to inspect your bag, and if you don't like it, you can shop elsewhere."

It's their right to ask to inspect your bag, but it's not necessarily their right to actually do so if you refuse. Specifically:

A customer can refuse to have their bag checked and simply walk out the door past the bag checker. Hopefully the bag checker has been trained to know that they cannot force anyone to submit to a bag search without cause. This is important because the expectation of the bag checker is that all bag contents have been purchased. The worst thing that could happen is that an aggressive bag checker would forcibly detain or threaten a customer who refused to comply with the voluntary search.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

Very true.  However, if you refuse to comply with store policy, it is their right to ban you from the store.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

That may be so, but a bag checker is not a police officer or border guard.  They have the authority to search any vehicle they so choose as long as there is probable cause.  In border crossings, that covers pretty much any vehicle whatsoever.  Including a sci-fi author's car.  If you're pulled over, you do NOT have the right to just drive away.

---

You KILL Vampires. You don't DATE them.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

Since this was a random check, probable cause could be brought into question if they guy wanted to really push the issue.  Random searches in public space (since he was not going through US customs, it could be argued that he was still in public space) have had mixed results in the courts.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

Getting out of your car before being asked to by LEOs is ALWAYS aggressive behavior.  He's lucky he wasn't in an area where there's a lot of crime, because that's a good way to get shot in some areas of the US.

---

You KILL Vampires. You don't DATE them.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

Austin, grow up. Calling someone a dumbass isn't exactly necesary, is it?

//Watts was acting in an aggressive manner, and he very likely brought this on himself//

Correction

Watts was ALLEGEDLY acting in an aggressive manner. Unless you were there, or saw the tape already, your speaking out of your ass.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

You have to understand that Austin Lewis has an authoritarian mindset. Like most authoritarian conservatives, he'll usually take the officers' words over those of an abused citizen unless the evidence against the officers is so clear that claiming no abuse occurred would make him look like an idiot. Thus, when a Mexican immigrant gets beat up at the border or a Canadian sci-fi author is punched and partially stripped while crossing back into his country, it's usually the civilian's fault -- even when it isn't.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

Right now, I'm running off the assumption that he did, indeed, get out of the car (as that seems to be one of the few points on which both parties agree) and that the officers did react to his being outside the car as every LEO would react; with fear for their safety.

Based solely on the fact that Watts got out of the car, he was in the wrong.  That's all there is to it.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

If the officer was so scared for his safty that he and his buddies needed to apply significant force to someone exiting their car, they either need to be retrained or removed from the force.  People that jittery have no buiensess being in that kind of potition of authority.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

To be fair, one of the main things officers learn is just how dangerous someone you know nothing about, nor of their intentions can be.  What if he was armed?  You do know just how easy it is to get yourself killed by being over confident right?  Seriously, just one smart ass comment to a drunk in a bar, or because you just have to show how hard you are by picking a fight with someone you don't like for whatever reason.  Either could easily do it, all because you've forgotten how to be smart, and scared.  They need to assume the worst in a possibly unfavorable situation, or it could easily cost them their lives.  Hell, some people kill over parking spaces.  Fear is a primalm, instinctive response for a reason.

Of course, theres also the fact that officers of any kind are also human beings, and don't like being challenged.  Especially not since they do in fact have the privilege and authority to act as the situation and their training demands, whether you consider that fair or not.  Getting out of your car and then refusing to get back into the vehicle, besides representing a potential threat, is also displaying either a lack of trust in said officers and/or that he may have something to hide.  Either way, thats only going to agitate them.

Also, you're crossing the border and the border patrol searches you.  It's not rocket science to figure out what they're doing: checking for contraband, whether by a random method/ a hunch/ or a tip-off.  If there's nothing to find, all he had to do was put up with an annoyance of being delayed.  Instead, he made it worse, simple by getting out of the car and not being cooperative.

Thing is, most officers are courteous enough to respond if you are cooperative and genuinely inquire as to why they're doing what they are doing.  Nothing to hide about a random search after all.

 

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

*nods* it is the 'any situation or unknown can be dangerous' training that makes me question how well trained these officers were.  Part of that training is avoiding escalation.  If someone is potentially dangerous but not an immediate threat, you generally do not want to force a confrontation unless you have to since that can turn 'potentially dangerous' into 'activly dangerous'.

This is why most officers are trained to speak calmly and not make sudden moves unless provoked and needing to bring a situation under contorl.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

Again, you're refusing to accept the fact that these officers may HAVE been provoked.

---

You KILL Vampires. You don't DATE them.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

Also quoted for the same reasons.

One thing you forgot to take into account is if he was given reason for his detainment.  Some of the Canadian members of the board weren't even aware that the US boarder did this.  So this leaves to wonder if there were signs posted that being stopped was a possibility, or if the cops specifically told him why he was being held up.  That fact right there may swing things in favor of the author.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

Quoted, for making sense.

---

You KILL Vampires. You don't DATE them.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

Getting out of his car may have been a mistake (though I can certainly understand his desire to see what the officers were doing if they were searching through his personal possessions), but that alone doesn't justify the treatment he says he got. If he did indeed try to choke one of the officers then an aggressive response was indeed appropriate, but even then only as aggressive as necessary to subdue the subject. This last point is important, as I know for a fact that police officers will sometimes beat up a belligerent citizen after having subdued him in retaliation for making the arrest more difficult.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

"but even then only as aggressive as necessary to subdue the subject"

That means absolutely nothing.  What is necessary at the time is based on the sole authority of the police officer on the scene.  No one else was there, facing the same conditions, being in the same shoes as that officer at that time.  This means that for the grand majority of cases, the action taken by the police was warrented.

As for that last part, "subdue" is a very trickey word.  Do you mean in handcuffs?  If that's the case then the person is impaired, not subdued.  He can still kick and bite, and cause harm to the arresting officer.  Making the arrest more difficult, to the point of potentially causing harm to the arresting officer, is reason enough for counteractions by the police, be it taser or what have you.

If getting arrested in the US, make sure there is a reason for your detainment, that the police declare that you're being arrested and for what reason (this one's important), that you don't make matters difficult for them unless you potentially want to get your teeth knocked in or hit with a taser, and that you don't say jack shit to the police and leave it up to the lawyers (another important part - the police are not your friends.  They work on the side of the prosecution.  What you say under their supervision will never do you any good, and will always try to be used in the court case against you). 

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

Bullshit. If it were strictly a matter of the officer's judgment, no officer would ever be convicted for shooting a citizen while on duty. While officers do get a lot of leeway when accused of improper behavior, that doesn't mean you can look at the officer's judgment independently of the facts at the scene. There is such a thing as excessive use of force, and exactly what that is depends very much on the facts at the scene.

As for knocking in a citizen's teeth, that's a purely retaliatory act and in no way constitutes acceptable use of force. Officers have the right to use as much force as necessary to arrest you, but no more.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

"Officers have the right to use as much force as necessary to arrest you, but no more."

Exactly right, but you aren't arrested till you're in a holding cell.  Up until that point you are still treated as if you can cause damage, which you can.  Getting the cuffs put on.  Getting put in the car.  These are all steps taken up until you're actually arrested, and the police have the right to administer as much force as they deem necessary to get that to happen.

But as for the officer's judgement part, I simply retort that I said that they're in the "grand majority of cases."  Every now and then you get unwarrented shootings, but for most situations, the police are acting within their rights.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

Except for the fact that the only thing that the police and the author agree on is that he got out of his car without being told to do so.  This is seen as aggressive behavior by all LEO's.  To say that it isn't his fault, when he admits to performing an aggressive act, and there is no evidence yet to point fingers on anyone, you come off as a jackass.  How about we wait until we see the security footage, hmm?

---

You KILL Vampires. You don't DATE them.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

You didn't wait to see the security footage before commenting either, so why demand that I do so?

In any case, whether or not getting out of his car was perceived as an aggressive move -- and please note the difference between perception and fact -- I find it difficult to justify the officers' actions if the man's demeanor was not aggressive.

I'm familiar with your posts, jedidethfreak, and it's perfectly clear to me that you share much of Austin's blind trust in authority. I know that Americans are trained to take it up the ass and like it whenever confronted by officers, but that doesn't make it right.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

Unlike you, none of my posts have been blatantly biased on this topic.  My comments have all been about pointing out the fallacy of their arguments, namely, that a law enforcement officer is not supposed to act on perceived threats.  They are trained to do that here.  That's why it's illegal to point a squirt gun at a cop.  That's also why, in America, YOU DON'T GET OUT OF YOUR FUCKING CAR UNTIL THE COP TELLS YOU TO.

Also, as you're obviously from a country where a police officer isn't allowed to fire back at a suspect shooting at them, judging by your posts, where the fuck are you from?

---

You KILL Vampires. You don't DATE them.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

"Unlike you, none of my posts have been blatantly biased on this topic."

You may think you're not biased, but I've read enough of your posts to know that you are.

"Also, as you're obviously from a country where a police officer isn't allowed to fire back at a suspect shooting at them, judging by your posts, where the fuck are you from?"

Who said anything about shooting? We're talking about an unarmed citizen getting pepper sprayed, beat up and deprived of much his clothing for not getting back in his car.

Also, has it occured to you that my objections to police brutality may be due in part to the fact that it does occur where I live? Here's an example from where I live of a man being murdered by a police officer who felt the citizen was not being respectful. The only bright side is the officer was ultimately convicted of murder -- something you don't often see in countries where the law is above the law.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

The law ISN'T above the law in this country.  This as been proven by Rodney King, OJ Simpson and Barack Obama.  Rodney King led police on a high-speed chase after a botched drug bust, and, even though he hit innocent people, he sued the police for beating him up afterwards.  OJ Simpson got away with two murders because the LAPD has used the word "nigger."  Barack Obama insinuated himself in a situation involving a black professor and a white cop, saying the cop was in the wrong, even though it later came out he was right.  I don't know what you're talking about, "the law is above the law."

Also, my posts haven't been biased.  I called the author on what he did wrong (getting out of his car before being told), and have explained as best I can to idiots like you why that's a bad idea.  Also, you keep talking about police brutality, but you always choose to ignore the fact that HE WAS ACCUSED OF ASSAULTING A FEDERAL AGENT.  It doesn't matter how nice a federal agent is, he's going to kick your ass if you hit/choke him, as he's been accused of doing.  What I'm telling you, that you seem too biased to listen to, is that we can't judge anyone on the merits of this situation UNTIL HE'S BEEN TRIED.

---

You KILL Vampires. You don't DATE them.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

1. There are other cases where police officers have been acquited of obvious wrongdoing. It's actually very difficult for charges against cops to stick, even in cases of wrongdoing.

2. When I speak of bias in your posts, I am considering your entire record and not just the posts to this story.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

"I know that Americans are trained to take it up the ass and like it whenever confronted by officers, but that doesn't make it right."

Wait....what?  You sounded logical till that point.  Now I can't take anything you say seriously.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

I think you'll find it's a better idea to consider each point on its merits than dismiss everything a person says simply because you disagree with one of his statements.

As for my statement, I was, of course, exaggerating when I said it. It's intended as a comment on the mindset so prevalent among conservative Americans, where respect for authority is often more important than the question of whether particular authorities deserve the respect they demand.

Re: Game Writer in Border Dispute

You haven't been considering any comments on it's merits.  Your anti-law-enforcement bias proves that.  You see a police officer doing something you don't believe it's right, so it doesn't matter that he may have had reason to do so.  I'm the one saying that we should reserve judgement of both parties until one side has been proven false.  I have judged the writer FOR BEING AN IDIOT, because he got out of his car without being told to, but that's only because neither party dispute that.  That is the only fact about this that we know.  You, however, have already deemed the border agents guilty in this manner.  That's why I dismiss everything you say.

---

You KILL Vampires. You don't DATE them.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.
 
Forgot your password?
Username :
Password :

Poll

How do you feel about Amazon buying Twitch?:

Shout box

You're not permitted to post shouts.
MaskedPixelantehttp://m.tickld.com/x/something-you-never-realized-about-guardians-of-the-galaxy Right in the feels.08/29/2014 - 6:56pm
AvalongodAgain I think we're conflating the issue of whether Sarkeesian's claims are beyond critique (no they're not) and whether its ever appropriate to use sexist language, let alone physical threats on a woman to intimidate her (no it isn't)08/29/2014 - 5:04pm
prh99Trolling her or trying to assail her integrity just draws more attention (Streisand effect?). Which is really not what the trolls want, so the only way to win (if there is a win to be had) is not to play/troll.08/29/2014 - 5:02pm
prh99Who cares, just don't watch the damn videos if you don't like her. Personally, I don't care as far as she is concerned as long there are interesting games to be played.08/29/2014 - 4:34pm
Andrew EisenZip - And yet, you can't cite a single, solitary example. (And no one said you hated anyone. Along those lines, no one claimed Sarkeesian was perfect either.)08/29/2014 - 3:51pm
Andrew EisenSaint's Row: Gat Out of Hell was just announced for PC, PS3, PS4, Xbox 360 and Xbox One making it the 150th game For Everything But Wii U! Congratulations Deep Silver!08/29/2014 - 3:49pm
ZippyDSMleeI do not hate them jsut think its mostly hyperlobe.08/29/2014 - 3:40pm
Andrew EisenSleaker - I'd say that's likely. From my experience, most who have a problem with Sarkeesian's videos either want to hate them in the first place (for whatever reason) or honestly misunderstand what they're about and what they're saying.08/29/2014 - 3:16pm
james_fudgeWe appreciate your support :)08/29/2014 - 2:55pm
TechnogeekIt gives me hope that maybe, just maybe, the gaming community is not statistically indistinguishable from consisting entirely of people that your average Xbox Live caricature would look at and go "maybe you should tone it down a little bit".08/29/2014 - 2:49pm
TechnogeekI just want to say that while I've disagreed with the staff of this site on several occasions, it's still good to see that they're not automatically dismissing Anita's videos as a "misandrist scam" or whatever the preferred dismissive term is these days.08/29/2014 - 2:49pm
E. Zachary KnightZippy, So you can't find even one?08/29/2014 - 1:04pm
ZippyDSMleeAndrew Eisen:Right because shes prefect and never exaggerates... *rolls eyes*08/29/2014 - 12:53pm
SleakerAnd honestly, nearly all of the games she references, or images she depicts I've always cringed at and wondered why they were included in games to begin with, from pinups through explicit sexual depictions or direct abuse. I think it's cheap storytelling.08/29/2014 - 12:35pm
Sleaker@AE - aren't most people fundamentally misunderstanding her at this point? haha.. On a related note I think a lot of the backlash is coming from males that think she is telling them their 'Generic Male Fantasy' is bad and wrong.08/29/2014 - 12:33pm
Andrew EisenAnd no, I don't think the female community would be upset over the performance of a case study in and of itself. Possibly the mostivations behind such a study, the methodology or conclusions but not the mere idea of a case study.08/29/2014 - 12:29pm
Andrew EisenAmusingly, these videos aren't saying you can't/shouldn't use tropes or that sexual representations are inherently problematic so those are very silly things to have a problem with and indicate a fundamental misunderstanding of the series.08/29/2014 - 12:29pm
SleakerDo you think the female community would get extremely angry over a male doing a case study on the negative impact of sex-novels and their unrealistic depiction of males and how widespread they are in american culture?08/29/2014 - 12:25pm
SleakerThe other thing that people might find problematic is that they see no problem with sexual representations of females (or males) in games. And realistically, why is there anything wrong with sexual representations in fiction?08/29/2014 - 12:24pm
SleakerTo even discuss or bring up these issues at a cultural level to begin with. Going straight for games to many probably feels like a huge overstepping given that it's interactive story in many cases, and when you're telling a story why can't you use tropes.08/29/2014 - 12:21pm
 

Be Heard - Contact Your Politician