On Games and Religion

January 7, 2010 -

As any reader of this website knows full well, videogames and religion tend to mix like oil and water.

Every few weeks, it seems, a story pops up about a religious group expressing dismay or anger over  a videogame. The latest such tale revolved around a Maine Christian group calling for a Modern Warfare 2 ban.

The constant collision of these topics caused a Bitmob contributor to pen a column asking whether or not games and religion are mortal enemies.

Mike Gingras writes from the viewpoint of a religious gamer, noting that players are constantly breaking the Ten Commandments in-game, but he takes a broadminded approach to it all:

My argument is that games, like any art, are a means of authorial expression and participant reaction. In a game, a person can safely dabble in behavior or thoughts that they may not necessarily agree with.

He continues:

As a gamer and a religious person, I believe that virtual worlds with unfixed consequences are a safe way to learn about your own beliefs and values. I remain unconvinced that playing a video game where you can wrestle with your own personal sense of right and wrong is a bad thing.

Gingras ends with the question, “So, which is it? Is gaming a hobby that people of all faiths can enjoy? Or is it something that the faithful should stay away from?”


Comments

Re: On Games and Religion

Probably not; it sounds like he simply doesn't belong to a fundamentalist group. Quite a few religious groups are fairly open-minded and have no problem with their members playing video games or watching movies. The real problem here is that the stereotype of religious people is based on the foaming-at-the-mouth fundamentalists, so when someone says he's religious, people automatically assume he's one of the nutters.

Re: On Games and Religion

No, he's said nothing wrong, at least not on the Bishop. I can't say anything about the others.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

Re: On Games and Religion

Also if a game is enjoyable, but goes against your religion, then how about every time when you play such as game that you just throw your brain into the bin for a while and just enjoy the game for what it is. Just a game.

When when you turn the game off, pick up your brain and continue to live a normal life peacefully without trying to change other people.

 

TBoneTony

Re: On Games and Religion

To me, christians, catholics, muslims, jewish, hindu, buddah and every other religion will always have most of their people who enjoy something, while a few older generation people will always struggle to adapt to change and maybe try their best to stop change if they don't like what they see.

It is not religion's fault to be honest, only certain people who enforce their own views against others who are just having a good time.

I believe that religious people can enjoy videogames, even if the game involves something that might challenge their beliefs, as long as they look at it as nothing more than a game, and know that it is only what they do to other people in real life that god judges them on... then I feel everyone should be able to live playing videogames in peace.

I used to feel that christians were nothing but power hungry people who wanted to burn all the Pokemon stuff that I really loved, so I got turned off by religion because of it.

That was 10 years ago, nowdays since I am allot more older and happier to know that Christian Gamers on this site are not the people who hate things like Pokemon all because it has got fantasy elements of evolution, most can clearly see that it is only a game and fantasy, I feel allot more confident that they can easily enjoy videogames and maybe like to play a few games where they can even follow in their own faith towards god as long as the games and fun and enjoyable to play above all else.

 

My view is, you need games to be fun in order for people to play them. And in games like Grand Theft Auto in a Christian's view, how about trying to play GTA without doing anything sinful, it might be a good way to enjoy it.

 

I believe that religion and games can get along with each other, the main thing is to have respect for others and I feel that not many older generation of religious people who preach about their views to others but don't want to be preached to unless if it is from their own opinion will ever understand how to accept videogames if they have such a hate towards them.

 

TBoneTony

Re: On Games and Religion

 The problem is actually with people's classification of their personal beliefs.  Most people of religious belief are mainline protestant yet will identify themselves as a different religion.  You are correct about the "old guard" of religion being unable to adapt their various religions, via dogma, to the current social environment.  

If the leaders of the various religions were willing to do this, there may be a lot less conflict about many subjects... however to them it would come at a price, their faith... which we have no right to destroy.

Re: On Games and Religion

One of my gamer friends is the pastor of a church. That's all I have to say.

Re: On Games and Religion

Hey look, a sane Christian taking a sane approach on an issue. We don't often get news about normal Christians being normal. They exist!

Re: On Games and Religion

Sane people don't make for good news stories. Insane ones do. There are four things that you don't trust the news media on due to bias or lack of any knowledge on the subject: Religon, Videogames, Politics, and the military.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

Re: On Games and Religion

That's why I don't watch TV very much. I say less than 2 hours every 2 days.

 

 

"It's better to be hated for who you are, then be loved for who you are not." - Montgomery Gentry

"It's better to be hated for who you are, then be loved for who you are not." - Montgomery Gentry

Re: On Games and Religion

I love the accompanying picture with the HRAP 2, for it is truely an instrument of the Lord God. 

Re: On Games and Religion

How about closed mindedness is soemthign everyone should stay away from?


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! CP/IP laws should not effect the daily life of common people! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: On Games and Religion

As long as Christians keep their values and beliefs to themselves, I'm A-OK.  Too often, these people seek to force all of society to change and bend to fit their ways.  

They can hate gay people all you want, believe the earth is <6000 years old, avoid having sex (other than to procreate), hate Harry Potter, fear wiccans, and anything  else they want to do.  Hell, I would fight the good fight to preserve their rights to practice their religion or believe whatever they want. 

HOWEVER

The moment Christians beat the wardrums of the "culture wars" and try to impose their ways on everyone else- the gloves come off and I say they can all go rot in hell.  Jack Thompson, Creationists, The Westboro Baptist Church, the 700 Club, and the like prove that Christianity is dominated by these types of people. 

The constitution that gives me the right to NOT be a Christian is the same one that allows them to be Christian (or Jew, Muslim, etc).  I just wish these people would understand that and respect that.  

Re: On Games and Religion

And again, someone commits the sin of generalizing ONE (1) person's behavior to their culture/creed/race/species/particular variety of rodeo clown as a whole.  Which is really EXACTLY what we all take issue with JT for doing.

Try this:  Instead of insulting a CLASS of people, try to restrict your insults to the PARTICULAR people who you take objection to.  Perhaps then we can actually claim we practice the tolerance we preach?

Because really, if we continue to insult entire groups of people this way, how many allies do you think we'll have?  Take a look at JT, in the end only the extremists on both ends really care at all about what he does.

-- Sometimes the truth is arrived at by adding all the little lies together and deducting them from the totality of what is known

-- Sometimes the truth is arrived at by adding all the little lies together and deducting them from the totality of what is known

Re: On Games and Religion

You do realize that it has always been such Christian groups and individuals that are initiating these battles, right?  It's not like the games industry or the audience all of a sudden called for the banning of religion.

Why is it that every time someone speaks in critisizm of religion, there is always the "by being critical of religion, you are just as bad!"  NEWSFLASH: Religion is not above critique.  What is it about faith that somehow exempts it from any form of critical analysis?

Oh, and why don't you re-read my post, where I say that the point where people like me get pissed is when they try to impose their ways on everyone else.  I have every right to be mad about that, and yes- I can be critical of these people when they are trying to impose their beliefs on me.  The only point at which you can say I'm as bad as I say they are is if I try to ban their faith.

Re: On Games and Religion

"Why is it that every time someone speaks in critisizm of religion, there is always the "by being critical of religion, you are just as bad!""

Er... because it's true? It may be a repetitive argument by this point, but from what I've seen thus far, it's being used against a repetitive claim.

 "NEWSFLASH: Religion is not above critique.  What is it about faith that somehow exempts it from any form of critical analysis?"

This is true, however, what I and others often see on this site is not critique, but blind hatred and generalization. I would like to assume that most everything should be exempt from that, religion and video games included.

EDIT: hmm, that's weird, I thought I understood how GP's comment system worked, yet my post, which was actually before some of the ones above it, is at the bottom. Is that supposed to happen, or what? Well, now that's I'm saying this, the date will change, but it was January 7th before...

Re: On Games and Religion

No, it's not bad to be critical of religon. It is, however, wrong to critisize all of religon for the acts of a few, then insult it with every post.

Oh, and to make clear, what defines "forcing one's belief".

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

Re: On Games and Religion

The problem is that the mere existence of Religion provides these people a concept to grasp onto and a target for them to spew thier hate and insanity. I will always be critical of Religion because of this fact. I freely acknowledge that not ALL religious people are hateful or crazy, but the most prolific ones always seem to be, and they always have plenty of followers to help them profess that hate, all in the name of Religion.

Re: On Games and Religion

But then those people would be hypocrites. I don't like people that hate non-believers b/c that makes me & the good believers look bad. I am definitely not crazy or hateful, but talking about crazy believers. I had a friends' brother that went into prison & learned God while he was in there. Then when he got out he continued to shoot up w/cocaine & acid & still believed in God?!?! Yeah I don't like people like that either. That is what I will not understand about people. But I do know some believers that have talked behind others' backs b/c of non-believers or other reasons that are ludicrus.

 

 

"It's better to be hated for who you are, then be loved for who you are not." - Montgomery Gentry

"It's better to be hated for who you are, then be loved for who you are not." - Montgomery Gentry

Re: On Games and Religion

The problem is that the mere existence of Religion provides these people a concept to grasp onto and a target for them to spew thier hate and insanity."

Well, on this we can agree, at least.  I am a Christian, but I have little use for religion.

I posted some counter links to yours in the last thread, in case you are interested.  I like to investigate both sides of an issue as well as possible before forming an opinion.

 

Your Yak is Weak!

Your Yak is Weak!

Re: On Games and Religion

But in that case, you should be critical of all ideology, as it is ideology, when twisted, that makes people spew hatred and insanity. Do you really think that atheism is immune to hatred and insanity?

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

Re: On Games and Religion

Athiesm isn't attempting to limit my way of life, and isn't encouraging the Ugandan Government to pass a law that would have people like me executed.

I'd say that I'm a bit less critical of Athiesm, because they aren't actively trying to make my life miserable, because I might have differing morals.

Re: On Games and Religion

Of course atheists aren't making you miserable; of course you're less critical of them. You yourself are atheist. It would take quite the atheist to alter your belief if you yourself already believe it. And just because an atheist doesn't bother you and your belief, which is the same belief, doesn't mean that atheist don't bother other beliefs. Again, I have taken enough crap from atheists to know.  Atheism is not some pure ideology that is free from forceful pricks or intolerant fools.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

Re: On Games and Religion

I never said it was free of forceful pricks. Hell, I'm sure the majority of you see me as one of them. I will make it clear that I cannot think of a single, SOLITARY situation where an Athiest was organizing in an attempt to pass laws that prevent you from practising your religion or loving who you love. That would be the main reason why I am not critical of Athiest Nuts. They aren't out there, trying to ban you from practising your faith or living your life the way you want. If they are, I'll be the first to condemn them.

Re: On Games and Religion

There has been plenty of persecution of the relgious by athiests in history... just not in THIS county... Soviet union, Albania, Cuba, Cambodia, and mogolia all have some examples in their histories... don't see it that much because there are not that many countries where athiests have significant power.

Main reason you don't see Athestist nuts trying to pass laws HERE is because they don't stand a chance in this country. fullblown Atheism makes up a very small minority as far as relious affliation goes; how big of an organization could the atheists nuts make? athiest, especially nutcase athiests are FAR fewer in number than christian nutcases, and thus have no power, no control,and little to no say in the government; which makes organizating an influecial nutcase group much harder... They have a snowballs chance in hell of getting such laws passed... and that's not just speaking about the religious in this country but also the concept of religious freedom which prevents such laws... The most the atheists can push for is increasing the speration of church and state, lowering religious influence, which is a sensible and a non-nutcase endeavor

 

Frankly, if the majority of this country and the government were atheists i'm certain the nutcases would start to rise up in power to enforce their views just as much as the religious. You look up atheist states, countries where Atheists have/had a great amount of power and you will see plenty of persecution (though not necessarily in all states). so ya, even atheists are capable of religious persecution, starting religious wars and attempting genocide against others based on belief.

Re: On Games and Religion

You're right. I failed to account for other countries in history.

Let me make it known that I don't feel that what those countries did is right, and while I think this country would be better off completely secularized, I don't agree with the idea of forcing MY morals down anyone else's throats, much like I don't like Christian Morals being forced down MY throat. If there ever comes such a time where Athiests are no longer fighting for thier own personal freedoms, and begin to oppress people's right to practise other religions, I will fight against them. For now, though, the attention must be focused to defeat the Christian Church's attempts to Oppress myself and others.

Re: On Games and Religion

Actually i put a line  between "secular state" and "atheist state"... secular i interpret to mean that the state just does not have any recognized belief and runs based on laws and nothing more. It's more like the state is agnostic or doesn't have an opinion on the matter. an Atheist State on the other hand strictly sticks to Atheism and runs itself based on all religions being wrong. When you are secular you are being truly neutral where as an Atheist state IS taking a stand on the issue of religion.

America is SUPPOSED to be a secular state what with the separation of church and state, but at the same time there's not much stopping people from trying to push laws that have religious backing; in a way you can say a true secular state is not possible in a democracy where one major religious group makes up the vast majority. Cause in a democracy, the majority rules.

And i do think that if enough people turned to atheism that they were on even or higher ground than christians, that we would then start hearing of desires for gov't to shut down religion. Atheism has it's nutcases just like any religion; only reason you don't hear them now is because they are far to few in number; increase the numbers of atheist and you increase the number of nutcases and that leads to them organizing themselves and getting a better chance to making their voices heard. And when the nutcases view religion as not only that it's wrong but a source of problems, the logical extreme of that is that religion should be done away completely...

Re: On Games and Religion

You forgot China.

Communism is the Very Definition of Failure!

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

Re: On Games and Religion

 I know your comment's playful... but I thought I'd offer up the fact that China's state religion is Confucianism. 

Re: On Games and Religion

Confucianism isn't a religon, it's a philosophy. Many others who follow one religon also follow confucianism. And China, as a "communist" state, has defined itself as atheistic and has a history of suppresing religon because of it.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

Re: On Games and Religion

You would be correct from the 1950s until the 1980s.

After the 1980s more religious freedoms were granted, and traditional beliefs (specifically Taoism and Buddhism) are supported as an integral part of Chinese culture.  Buddhism is actually the largest and fastest growing religion in China.

Citation:  http://www.mysinchew.com/node/26882 

Re: On Games and Religion

Your are right, it has gotten better. But one must remember a few things. One, the question includes major nations that have done it, not  just neccesarily currently are doing it. After all, there isn't even a Soviet Union anymore, but we still mentioned it. And second, China still gives hard times to religions and other cultures that they don't define as "chinese". Buddism and Taoism are religons that they tolerate, but they still believe in completely loyalty to the state. And even today, they still have problems with other cultures. *cough**cough* TIBET.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

Re: On Games and Religion

Every nation in history has at some point persecuted some of its citizens.  Atheist is not the classification that is correct in these terms however.  Taking China's specific example as I am more familiar with it, the Communist (more Totalitarian) government was afraid of the threat that organized religion could pose to its regime.  Many people do not properly label where the persecution comes from.  They like to lump all non-religious people into a category called "Atheist"  It is the same misconception that many non-religious people make when they state that all religious people are Christian.

Also the Tibet issue is much more complicated than western media would have you believe.  The way China is handling it is probably not the best way however the opposite extreme (see Canada's handling of our First Nations treaties and how these treaties are being abused by both sides) is also not a good one.

Re: On Games and Religion

My point is just that china makes for a state has, at least in its past, tried to crush religon in some way. The whole point of whoever named the countries in his post was to show that atheism can go to the bad extremes of religon. The moral of the story is: all ideologies can be twisted suppress others, and to do other such things, including people who act like total pricks.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

Re: On Games and Religion

You're missing my point.  I also made a point about the atheism =/= ideology above that lends clarity to my argument in this thread of conversation... but I digress.

In these instances, specifically China, I would be next to positive that atheism was not the uniting factor in the decision to "crush religion."  These countries were, most likely, trying to simply maintain their absolute control by unifying the people under one flag.  When you bring in many groups all with different belief systems there is always a threat to an absolutist leader/government.  Religion in these cases represented something that could be utilized to unify against the current regime.  I would wager that the government at the time probably did not even consider the existence or lack of existence of a god.  This is all simply musing however as no one can know exactly what they were thinking at the time.

Re: On Games and Religion

I repeat, atheism is just another ideology, and all ideology has the potential to be twisted. Oh, and shall I tell you of a certain government that was atheistic. It was called the Soviet Union. Look up their past, and you'll find some anti-religous injustice.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

Re: On Games and Religion

The problem with your statement is "atheism is just another ideology" when in fact it is simply a classification.  There is no uniting moral or rule system.  Atheism is simply a classification for people that do not believe in theism.  It's like calling someone that does not believe pixies exist an apixie or someone that does not believe in unicorns an aunicorn.

Re: On Games and Religion

Actually, what makes it an ideology is one simple belief. That there is no God. If you don't like the word ideology, then fine. I'll use something else. It is simply another idea, vision, or belief. It can be twisted. There really is no argument in that.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

Re: On Games and Religion

Hey! I am not a unicorn!

Re: On Games and Religion

 Don't worry... I respect your right to believe in unicorns!

 

(nice pun )

Re: On Games and Religion

I've never contradicted that all ideologies have potentials for crazies. Religions just happens to not only be the most prevalent, but also the most dangerous to my way of life. Therefore, I will come down MUCH harsher on Religion than anything else.

Re: On Games and Religion

+1

Re: On Games and Religion

I see no conflict between games and religion.

I DO see a conflict between games and religious leaders though.  When I say relgious 'leaders' I do not mean just the official hiearchy, but anyone who uses their faith as a mechanism for people to look up to them and seek advice.

Religious leadership centers around the power of one person to have influence over the moral choices of another person.  That second person, the follower, is discouraged (sometimes overtly, sometimes covertly) from making thier own moral judgements but instead is encouraged to look up to some figure to teach them what the right choice is.  This also couples with the idea that there is not only a 'right' choice, but that there is no 'choice'.. follower X simply must do Y.

The problem the leaderships tend to have with games is they give the player choice.  They can be good, they can be bad,.. they can do whatever the world allows them to do.  This goes against the idea of lack of choice, thus it is quite threatening to these people since it undercuts one of the core pieces of how they draw power from their followers.

(edited to add)

I should also point out, while religious leaders are often the focus of this type of discussion, this basic problem exists with any group where the leaders pull their power from being seen as moral or wise.   Religion often provides a convient framework for the leader to attack what is threatening them, but non-religious leaders often feel the same way about a medium that allows so much choice.  Thier attacks have been much less organized and consistant though since they do not have as many pre-packaged reasons to fall back on.  Usually they end up using economics or health as their vectors instead.

Re: On Games and Religion

I'd say, that depends largely on the religion in question. Gaming certainly isn't for the Amish.

Re: On Games and Religion

You are aware you're doing the atheistic equivelent of the religous types you're complaining about. Can you actually complain about annoying religous people without insulting all of them. If I had your attitude for every atheist who tried to force their belief on me, I'd would look like one of those religous idiots. The problem isn't religon, it's ideology. An ideology, religous or otherwise, always produces total jackasses.

Another thing is the athesitic equivelent to the "holier-than-thou" types are the atheists who find anyone who is religous as stupid and see their athesitic way of thinking as showing their "superior" intellect. I call those the "smarter-than-thou" types.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

Re: On Games and Religion

There seems to be a pattern here. lol. But seriously I know I am going to sound to Val like I am imposing my religiousness on him......but we as humans are all put on earth to influence/teach people that don't know God or Jesus to know about them. That's from my church & my bible.

 

 

"It's better to be hated for who you are, then be loved for who you are not." - Montgomery Gentry

"It's better to be hated for who you are, then be loved for who you are not." - Montgomery Gentry

Re: On Games and Religion

"..but we as humans are all put on earth to influence/teach people that don't know God or Jesus to know about them."

That's exactly what's wrong with your religion. That mentality that you HAVE to teach others about your faith, because your faith is SO much better than any other faith, or lack thereof. 

If you start to "teach" me about God or Jesus in real life, you should be ready for a particularly harsh reaction to it. I've ended friendships with people because they got too preachy around me, and that was letting them down easy. If a stranger walks up to me and starts talking his religious bullshit to me, he will recieve a big middle finger and a "Shut the Fuck up and get away from me."

I have, in the past, been followed, stalked, if you will by agressive evangelicals. If they continue to harass me after I've expressed the fact that they are unwelcome, they'll recieve warnings up until the point where I feel threatened. At that point, they will be hurt.

I've actually had an incendent like that happen, when, after repeated attempts to "teach" me resulted in Religious Harassment. I began to feel threatened, and when I started to call the cops, he tried to grab my phone from me. It was at that point I knocked him on his ass, and he lost a few teeth. The best part of this story was that after all was said and done, and all accounts taken by the police, they sided with me.

Re: On Games and Religion

I am from the Church of Christ & I do get Preachers & Chaplains & religious leaders that come up to me & talk about the bible. It doesn't bother me.

     But when you said you would end a friendship over getting preachy, that sounds like you are limiting your friends & their beliefs & be choosy to find friends. To me that is inmature crap. I respect someones beliefs & non-beliefs. I talk to my cousin about God & prayers that I pray & she doesn't say anything, but yet, it's weird b/c when I talk about hating bugs b/c their grosse. She says their Gods creatures, but yet she doesn't go to church. So I am stumped on that.

     But no one should follow you or stalk you about religion. That is wrong, I agree about that. But when you said the people will recieve a big middle finger & shut the fuck up & get away from me. It sounds like you have animosity toward them. For some reason. You sound like you have a lot of anger in that statement. But you should consider being nice about it & say no thank you please leave me alone. I'm sure they will oblige to you asking them to stop talking to you. :) & how do evangelicals threaten you? I have never been religiously harrassed, what do they say or do other than knocking your phone out of your hand?

 

 

"It's better to be hated for who you are, then be loved for who you are not." - Montgomery Gentry

"It's better to be hated for who you are, then be loved for who you are not." - Montgomery Gentry

Re: On Games and Religion

"But when you said you would end a friendship over getting preachy, that sounds like you are limiting your friends & their beliefs & be choosy to find friends. To me that is inmature crap."

I said before, I'm loyal to my friends until it's no longer enjoyable for me to be around them. If they start spouting off thier bullshit beliefs, you had better bet they won't be hanging with me anymore. Same goes for my family, as well. I have some very religious cousins who once asked me why I don't pray before meals. I told them, flat out, that I don't believe there is a God, so I don't pray to him. They started to try to evangelize to me and I told them that if they didn't want to cause issues, they should drop it, and never bring it up to me again. I have my beliefs, they have thiers, lets keep it that way.

"But when you said the people will recieve a big middle finger & shut the fuck up & get away from me. It sounds like you have animosity toward them. For some reason."

I don't like being preached to, and I don't like the way the majority of Christianity has treated homosexuals. Therefore, I have some animosity, and I see no reason to hold it back, when some preachy moron can't resist trying to convert me to his bullshit religion.

Re: On Games and Religion

I don't like being preached to, and I don't like the way the majority of Christianity has treated homosexuals. Therefore, I have some animosity, and I see no reason to hold it back, when some preachy moron can't resist trying to convert me to his bullshit religion.

When you said this, my first thought to ask you is, have you ever been hit on by a gay man? & do you like it? Do you not like it? Not trying to be funny now. But I have had women & still do hit on me & it disgusts me. I will be friends w/them, but if they flirt w/me or touch me in an inappropriate manner, that friendship ends or acquaintance ends. & I have had a boss that was flaming gay & brought his bf w/him to work more than once & told me that he goes to a christian church. Whether they know he's gay, Idk. But there is a reason why Christians don't like gays, b/c it says in my bible the King James version that God made two people to be together a man & a woman NOT the same religion. So they are going by their beliefs to not like them. Although I do think that they should go to church & if they change they change, BUT it is their decision. Don't prod & poke them on why they changed. That would be harassing then. lol. But I will not try to change you b/c it not my job to. But I can tell you that it's between you & a higher power. That's what I believe. Get mad at me for saying it, but that's how I feel about it. Now did it sound like I was changing you in that sentence? No, just telling you my beliefs, letting you know what I think. Not preaching to you about you needing to change. But I will say one thing about you that is good. Throughout the articles on here about religion. You seem to be standing your ground & I admire you for that. I will say the same thing about Gellymatos too. He is doing a good job of standing his ground which I admire as well.

     But you both are no better than the religious churches out there trying to change each other's opinion like the church's trying to change the homo's. Same goes for me too.

 

"It's better to be hated for who you are, then be loved for who you are not." - Montgomery Gentry

"It's better to be hated for who you are, then be loved for who you are not." - Montgomery Gentry

Re: On Games and Religion

"But there is a reason why Christians don't like gays, b/c it says in my bible the King James version that God made two people to be together a man & a woman NOT the same religion."

There's nothing my faith says about disliking gays. From our christian point of view, a homosexual act is a sin. So what? Everyone sins. If christians were to limit friends and associates to people who don't sin, we wouldn't have friends. Everyone sins. Hell, Jesus wouldn't have any apostles if he said "no sinners allowed". You like the bible? Read it.

"But you both are no better than the religious churches out there trying to change each other's opinion like the church's trying to change the homo's. Same goes for me too."

Hold up. I am not trying to change his belief from atheist to catholic. I am defending my church rom an unjustified attack.  And the church isn't on some mission to "change homos". I mean, we may try to convert if the opportunity arises or if someone is interested, but we aren't hunting down gays and trying to force them to be straight. Heck, homosexuality isn't even a priority for the catholic church compared to other things.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

 
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MaskedPixelanteThe Evil Within is only a month old, right? And it's already 66% off...11/27/2014 - 10:29am
MechaCrashI held off on Civ:BE because I am pretty sure it'll get a bigger discount during the Christmas sale.11/26/2014 - 11:09pm
MechaTama31I'm sorely tempted by Civ: BE, but I have to stay strong and remember what it felt like to be repeatedly kicked in the junk by Civ V...11/26/2014 - 10:58pm
MechaCrashNah, just providing more proof that GGers are lying when they claim it's really about ethics in game journalism and not a proxy war against feminism.11/26/2014 - 9:58pm
MaskedPixelanteMSS is Murdered: Soul Suspect.11/26/2014 - 8:34pm
Andrew EisenWhy the interest in Ghomeshi? Is it relevant to something we've been discussing? (Not saying it's not but it seems a rather random thing to bring up.)11/26/2014 - 6:39pm
WonderkarpJian Ghomeshi arrested on sex assault charges, released on $100K bail http://www.citynews.ca/2014/11/26/jian-ghomeshi-arrested-on-sex-assault-charges-released-on-100k-bail/11/26/2014 - 5:55pm
WonderkarpJian Ghomeshi to #Gamergate: Our culture’s toxic masculinity crisis on display http://www.salon.com/2014/10/27/jian_ghomeshi_to_gamergate_americas_toxic_masculinity_crisis_on_display/11/26/2014 - 5:55pm
WonderkarpI saw that. Amiibos are pretty awesome. I have 10 now :P11/26/2014 - 5:49pm
Matthew Wilsonon a weird side of smash news, a level 50 Amiibo almost won a tournament. http://www.siliconera.com/…/story-fox-amiibo-nearly-won-su…/ I guess Nintendo made the cpu ai better.11/26/2014 - 5:44pm
WonderkarpAny of you guys watch Game Grumps? They have an episode detailing alot of the bugs in the hilariously bad Sonic Boom https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3Jb3A0HLe4&list=UU9CuvdOVfMPvKCiwdGKL3cQ11/26/2014 - 4:19pm
Andrew EisenI'm blanking. What's MMS?11/26/2014 - 4:16pm
james_fudgeI keep an eye on it for really good deals11/26/2014 - 4:00pm
MaskedPixelanteEhh, MSS is only half off, I can wait for it to go under 1011/26/2014 - 3:48pm
NeenekoWhich is why I completely ignore the site.11/26/2014 - 3:15pm
james_fudgeAHHH Someone bar the door and keep the kids away from the credit cards!11/26/2014 - 3:14pm
Neo_DrKefkaThe Ralph Retort is a toxic mess and the guy is literally building his career on the back of the GamerGate movement. Whether you believe GamerGate is right or wrong this is a man profiteering on this war.11/26/2014 - 2:56pm
WonderkarpTHE STEAM SALES HAVE BEGUN!11/26/2014 - 2:16pm
MaskedPixelanteUnless you have said DLC already, then you can get the equally broken FarCry 4.11/26/2014 - 2:15pm
WonderkarpI love Boogie. He's awesome.11/26/2014 - 2:02pm
 

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