Violent Games Assailed by Church of England

The Church of England has issued a call for tighter regulation of videogames.

The Church, which perhaps still has a bad taste in its mouth from the use of Manchester Cathedral in Resistance: Fall of Man, addressed the issue of violent games in a meeting of its general synod on Thursday night.

Following an introduction, in which speakers were cautioned not to mention the names of specific games because “there is a risk of legal proceedings,” Tom Benyon (pictured), a former MP, took the microphone.

Benyon labeled the Byron Report “good in parts,” but said that it “did not go far enough.” He proceeded to read a poem by Oliver Wendell Holmes which he felt “encapsulates the essence of what we are about today in the matter of violent and sexual DVDs.”

God’s plan made a hopeful beginning. But man spoiled his chances by sinning. We trust that the story will end in God’s glory. But, at present, the other side’s winning.

He continued:

A bubbling sewer of gratuitously violent and sexual pornography in DVD games are washing all around us. Byron relied on the proposition that parents have a liability or are interested in controlling what their children do. We think, sadly, that that is optimistic and a prize hope.

Benyon went on to recount the story of a “family member” who “saw one so-called game some years ago and had nightmares. He was a teenager. He was an innocent and he was profoundly shocked. The damage that he suffered was substantial. The images remained with him for months.”

Benyon also had a compilation of violent games on CD that he was going to show, but he decided not to ruin the “evenings or supper” of attendees by showing it.

He added, “I know that the Devil is said to have all the best tunes. Without any question of doubt he has the monopoly of violent and pornographic videogames.”

The Archbishop of York offered analogies to Nelson Mandela and Martin Luther King, selecting a quote from the latter, that “law cannot legislate for morals, but it can actually regulate it.” He added, “On this great day of celebrating 20 years since Mandela came out of prison, can we help our young people to come out of the prison of these awful, awful videogames.”

Full audio of the hour-long meeting can be listened to here.

Via The Guardian

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115 comments

  1. 0
    cpu64 says:

     

    The biggest problem I see here is that all of you who are anti-religion, are a bit misinformed on the subject. Most likely you decided at some point that religion is evil because of some personal reason, maybe you were forced into it, maybe you went to an extremely liberal college and was brainwashed, an so on. But the thing is, there’s a huge difference between a Christian, and a Religious person. 
     
    Most of you know what a Religious person is, but you can’t see what a Christian person is like. The catholic church today really doesn’t have anything to do with God. It has always been a Mafia like "family" which in reality, stemmed from the very same people who put Jesus on a cross for healing someone on a "Sabbath". 
     
    You see, Religious people would put an innocent man to death for healing someone on the day that no work was allowed. That is called living under the law. They ignored the miracle of a blind man receiving sight, and focused on breaking a law. And that is what Religion is all about, trying to follow a set of impossible rules and try to be good enough. Just look at islam, the largest cult in existence. Its all about rules, and you’ll be killed for breaking one. Wanna talk about INTOLERANCE?? Skip Christians please. But the truth is no one can be good enough, because we are imperfect humans. 
     
    Christians aren’t trying to ban video games, Religious people are. Christians aren’t trying to control what you can and can’t do, Religious people are. Jesus said that if you love him, you’ll keep his commands. No where was it said that you shouldn’t play a certain game, or watch a certain movie. His were two commands:1 love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. and 2, Love your neighbor as yourself. 
     
    If people were a bit less concerned about all the legalism and the bickering between people about what must be right or wrong, and simply followed these two simple statements, we wouldn’t have this kind of hostile and negative views about people and God. As a Christian, its NOT my job to tell anyone that they are going to heaven/hell for something they do or don’t do. All I have to do is to be a living example of what God has done in my life, and share that experience with someone who is looking to fill that emptiness in their life, but can’t find it in any of the things in this world. 
     

    That’s it, live by example, and share the experience of God in my life. That’s what separates me, from Religion. Now who wants to join me on some Bad Company 2 multiplayer?? ^_^ 

  2. 0
    gellymatos says:

    Well, let’s hope so. And I’m not being picky. "Devout" and "fundamentalist" mean two very different things. Either he used an entirely wrong word, or he really meant devout.

  3. 0
    Baruch_S says:

    I’d say that’s  pretty fair assessment. "Fairly normal person leads fairly normal life" doesn’t make a good headline and doesn’t have any interesting sound bites.

  4. 0
    Bigman-K says:

    Sigh! Correlation does not equal causation! Noise Blast tests are an extremely overtly-broad and vague way of determining aggressive behavior yadda yadda yadda.

    P.S. – You’d be suprised that in many cases the difference between the aggressive group and not so aggressive groups are a mere fraction of a second longer and slighlty higher decibel ( ex. 2 or 3 decibels higher) noise blast.

     "No law means no law" – Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black on the First Amendment

  5. 0
    TBoneTony says:

    Perhaps it is the way that the news media mostly focuses their attention on the negative comments made by religious people, and the negative comments made by athiest people and everyone else who speaks with a certain amount of logic and reason are rarely ever heard from because what they say may not be what sells the news and largely gets ignored.

    I am not sure if I had made a generalization, but that is how I look at it.

    Fighting over videogame violence is pretty pointless considering the trouble we seem to have with almost every other topic in our world.

     

  6. 0
    TBoneTony says:

    Perhaps people who live inside glass houses and churches should not be throwing stones at people outside those glass houses and churches.

    I think I got that image in my mind right?

    Because when they decide to throw stones from the inside, they end up hitting the walls of their church and when it crashes down they try to blame everyone else for their problems.

     

  7. 0
    TBoneTony says:

    I was also wondering, didn’t Tanya Byron also said in her paper about how there are always going to be comments based on negative emotion and how they don’t really help to solve the problem?

    And considering what she said in her paper, about how we should stop thinking of how this new technology is going to harm our kids we should instead focus on trying to understand this new technology better and get to know the positive things from this new technology instead of trying to bash it down all the time?

    Perhaps these people have never bothered to read Tanya’s full paper all because it did not say anything of what they were wanting to hear.

    Chruch of England, my ass, this guy is like Adolf Hitler trying to hide his messages behind the bible to preach hate.

    Religion is NOT about preaching hate against youth culture, that is one thing I do know.

  8. 0
    chadachada321 says:

    Way to be picky about it…he probably meant "fundamentalist" more than "devout." You know, the batshit-insane Christians. Just like the batshit-insane Muslims or batshit-insane [insert oppressive faith here].

    -Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

  9. 0
    gellymatos says:

    "Read more carefully. He says devout Christians."

    That’s the problem. "Devout christians" would refer to those who truly try to practice their faith, whatever variation of chrisitanity is. He said they were all sheltered. I know those who are devout and they are not sheltered. I try to follow the tenants of my faith, so I would consider myself devout, more or less. I am certainly not sheltered. So, no, devout does not equal sheltered.

  10. 0
    Baruch_S says:

    No, generalization are generalizations because they make broad blanket statements with little regards to individual differences or reality. The ones we throw around here are being made by people who know basically nothing about the religion they’re arguing about (on both sides, mind you), and they’re simply cherry-picking whatever "facts" or stereotypes they want to create a biased depiction of religion.

    The problem I have is that we’ve had this same argument countless times already. They never get anywhere because it’s not a discussion; it’s a bunch of uninformed people arguing both sides of the issue. Nobody listens to the other side because neither side has any informed, intelligent arguments, and both sides are too convinced that they’re right to listen, anyway. Atheists say "the church is teh evils!!!1!" and religious people say "no it’s not, your a liar!!1!!!!," and nothing else ever happens. If we could actually sit down with some informed people and have an intelligent discussion that didn’t start by generalizing all Christians as gay-hating, gun-toting, uneducated, ultra-conservative fundamentalist morons, we might get somewhere, but we seem incapable of doing that.

  11. 0
    Monte says:

     I’d say most of my extended family are very devout Christians and not a single one was raised in sheltered life and on the terror and fear of hell, but in an open and tolerant life based on the love of god and heaven.

  12. 0
    Baruch_S says:

    I suppose it could be. But if it is both, I still think we need to put more emphasis on the age since youger Christians basically never do this sort of thing (unless they’re fundamentalists, and fundies don’t count as Christians for these purposes). I think these people are started to feel their age and see everything changing, so they’re using whatever method they can to keep things the way they’re used to. They just happen to have power in a religious organization, so they’re using it to further their own agenda.

  13. 0
    Pinworm says:

     generalizations are generalizations because they’re generally true.

    And when discussing matters that effect many people, it’s the general majority that’s relevant. 

    seems to make sense to me, I don’t know where you’re having a problem.

  14. 0
    Michael Chandra says:

    Read more carefully. He says devout Christians. The context of his post indicates that with that he means those raised to take an awful lot of the bible general, only a part of the Christians, not the entire group. Hell, he’s against causing children to end up sheltered, if you’re not sheltered then by definition his post was not aimed against you. So I really don’t get why you take that post as an attack, it’s pretty clear he has a problem with fanatics, not the entire population.

  15. 0
    Baruch_S says:

    Christianity is supposed to teach tolerance and acceptance, but it’s generally abused to promote hatred and agendas. It depends more on who’s using the material than what’s actually there.

  16. 0
    Baruch_S says:

    This is nothing more than videogame bashing by someone who will not listen to reason,

    But religion is involved, so that obviously must be at fault no matter what else is going on because religion is the ultimate evil, and anyone who doesn’t accept that fact unquestioningly is a brainwashed moron who advocates killing gays and raping young boys! Haven’t you ever read a religion article on this website?

  17. 0
    Baruch_S says:

    Well, it’s good to see that GamePolitics has once again become a nest of religious/anti-religious trolls. I was worried after the last religion article was almost completely ignored, but it looks like everyone’s back to throw ridiculous, uninformed generalizations at each other and intentionally misrepresent everything about their opposition. Welcome back, everyone!

  18. 0
    Baruch_S says:

    Yeah, but since they’re old folks with religion, it’s obviously the religion’s fault and not the fact that they’re old folks who can’t deal with the changes in modern culture.

  19. 0
    gellymatos says:

    And sometimes it’s not. Yes, sheltered people exist. But you can’t blame religion. Especially if those who follow the religion are mostly not sheltered anyway. I was raised in a catholic school myself. Yes, we were taught "God is Good". No, not all of the Bible is taken literally. Most, yes. It is a book largly made up of stories we find mostly accurate. Some, no. We find a good amount metaphorical. Your teacher said something I believe is false. There are things we consider, factually, questionable, in the way of exact locations or amounts of time, but not "most" ("most" suggests more than 50%). And even in the face of all you have mentioned, what does that have to do with being sheltered?

     

  20. 0
    gellymatos says:

    Ah, Anglicans. Funny beginnings. They separated from us catholics for funny reasons after all. Let them talk a lot of crap. Now the question is, do they represent the true beliefs of the Church of England? It appears as though they do. Is this hour long statement what we could call "official"?

  21. 0
    MaskedPixelante says:

    Sometimes it’s true. I went to a Catholic grade school, and I remember them being ALL about the standard "God is good, the bible is a literal interpretation" and all that jazz. One of the biggest things I remember was when one of my teachers was telling us to go to church on Sundays, and whenever someone said that their parents couldn’t make it, her retort was to say that we were old enough to go on our own.

    I also remember the first religion class I took in high school, where the teacher basically outlined the bible being mostly fiction, but don’t let that stop the message of "hey, be a nice person" from being important.

    —You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.

  22. 0
    TBoneTony says:

    This is nothing more than videogame bashing by someone who will not listen to reason,

    Even saying that the Byron Review didn’t go far enough, I guess he wanted the Byron review to say that Videogames should be banned or something like that.

    Also, I don’t believe his story about the teenager getting trumatised, and I also believe that his Violent Videogame Images from his CD is a load of rubbish, trying to say that he did some evidence when in reality he is only preaching his belief.

    And worst of all, allot more people are stupid just by hearing from him.

     

  23. 0
    funkyj says:

    Scriptural violence sanctioned by God can increase aggression, especially in believers.

    The authors set out to examine this interaction by conducting experiments with undergraduates at two religiously contrasting universities: Brigham Young University where 99% of students report believing in God and the Bible and Vrije Universiteit in Amsterdam where just 50% report believing in God and 27% believe in the bible.

    After reporting their religious affiliation and beliefs, the participants read a parable adapted from a relatively obscure passage in the King James Bible describing the brutal torture and murder of a woman, and her husband’s subsequent revenge on her attackers. Half of the participants were told that the passage came from the Book of Judges in the Old Testament while the other half were told it was an ancient scroll discovered in an archaeological expedition.

    In addition to the scriptural distinction, half of the participants from both the bible and the ancient scroll groups read an adjusted version that included the verse:

    "The Lord commanded Israel to take arms against their brothers and chasten them before the LORD."

    The participants were then placed in pairs and instructed to compete in a simple reaction task. The winner of the task would be able to "blast" his or her partner with noise up to 105 decibels, about the same volume as a fire alarm. The test measures aggression.

    As expected, the Brigham Young students were more aggressive (i.e. louder) with their blasts if they had been told that the passage they had previously read was from the bible rather than a scroll. Likewise, participants were more aggressive if they had read the additional verse that depicts God sanctioning violence.

    At the more secular Vrije Universiteit, the results were surprisingly similar. Although Vrije students were less likely to be influenced by the source of the material, they blasted more aggressively when the passage that they read included the sanctioning of the violence by God. This finding held true even for non-believers, though to a lesser extent.

    The research sheds light on the possible origins of violent religious fundamentalism and falls in line with theories proposed by scholars of religious terrorism, who hypothesize that exposure to violent scriptures may induce extremists to engage in aggressive actions. "To the extent religious extremists engage in prolonged, selective reading of the scriptures, focusing on violent retribution toward unbelievers instead of the overall message of acceptance and understanding," writes Bushman "one might expect to see increased brutality"

    http://www.psychologicalscience.org/media/releases/2007/bushman.cfm

  24. 0
    gellymatos says:

    "Seriously, I believe that raising children as devout Christians is a form of child abuse.  Instilling a sense of terror and fear of eternal punishment for being human in a child is WRONG."

    Wow. That’s quite the assumption you have about those raised as christians. And rather inaccurate as well. You can’t just label an entire group based of off of generalizations.You can’t base it off of personal experiences either. Especially it it’s "almost every". I was raised a christian. I am certainly not sheltered. Watch who you may be insulting when you make generalizations, assumptions, or stereotypes.

  25. 0
    Wormdundee says:

    I’m amazed noone has tackled this choice bit yet.

    "Byron relied on the proposition that parents have a liability or are interested in controlling what their children do. We think, sadly, that that is optimistic and a prize hope."

    Are you kidding me? That’s one of the core tenets of being a parent, being interested in what your kids are doing. Plus, even if parents are fucking up by not caring what their kids are doing it is not the church’s duty to take over for them and push political agendas because they don’t like what some parents are doing.

  26. 0
    hellfire7885 says:

    It’s kind of a play on words. They don’t want the government to intrudeo n their own lives, but they have absolutely no problem with the government restrictign the lives of people they don’t like or making it harder on activities they themsevles don’t engage in or that they see as sinful.

    Basically it’s sort of a "So long a I get what I want screw everyoen else" mentality.


  27. 0
    Doom90885 says:

    As I’ve said many times before, people say they don’t want the government in their everyday lives yet they want the government to force tighter sanctions on video games when people should be making those decisions for themselves. That’s like saying you want it to be hot and cold outside at the same time. People want the goverment making decisions when its convenient for them namely when they’re too weak or lazy to tell their own kids no.

  28. 0
    hellfire7885 says:

    I’m fairly certain their god would love the idea behind the Doom series, but these people don’t, so they say he himself hates it so they can justify their own hatred as some kind of higher calling.


  29. 0
    Avalongod says:

    As an Anglican myself, I find this all terribly embarrasing.

    Once again, a bunch of old folks working themselves into a tither over youth culture.  Same old story.  Nothing less, nothing more.

  30. 0
    gamegod25 says:

    Oh good yet another person who knows nothing about games telling us he knows whats best for us.

    *sarcasm* but hey its not like the church ever tried to keep people illiterate, or went on crusades to kill unbelievers, or sold pieces of paper that would absolve people of their sins…

    BTW I’m not against religion in general, one of my friends is a pastor, I just really hate extremist idiots like this guy.

  31. 0
    Andrew Eisen says:

    "A bubbling sewer of gratuitously violent and sexual pornography in DVD games are washing all around us."

    Good thing the "risk of legal proceedings" prevents you from naming games, huh?

     

    Andrew Eisen

  32. 0
    Adamas Draconis says:

    And this is the Church that broke with Rome so the King could screw, marry and kill. as many women as he wanted…(Yeah I know it’s most likely an over-simplification, but still.)

    Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

  33. 0
    MaskedPixelante says:

    I don’t know what my personal beliefs are. But I do know that I don’t want anything to do with a religion that teaches intolerance.

    —You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.

  34. 0
    Zerodash says:

    Is it also not abusive to raise children to be terrified of life? 

    If you masturbate, you go to hell.

    If you have sex for any reason than to reproduce (in wedlock), you go to hell.

    If you think "impure thoughts", you go to hell.

    If you are gay, you go to hell.

    I have known several "good Christians" who were so sheltered in childhood, that they turned out to be naive and helpless adults.  Almost every guy I have ever known who passed 30 in virginity and never having a girlfriend was raised in a Christian home- and they were so weak and timid that girls had no interest. 

     

    Seriously, I believe that raising children as devout Christians is a form of child abuse.  Instilling a sense of terror and fear of eternal punishment for being human in a child is WRONG.

    Before the Church of England looks to ban/regulate media, perhaps they should look inwards and see what they do to harm children.

  35. 0
    Cerabret100 says:

    It’s kind of hard to root for god when everything fun is labeled the devils work.

    And why is it always man’s fault? is god really above saying to himself "you know…maybe i screwed up on that one"*

    But you keep on preaching church of England, i’ll keep on NOT listening and enjoying my current playing of Beyond Good & Evil and S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

     

    *note: i’m just being facetious here so anyone who takes offense at that can chill out. I’m not religeous but I fully respect those who are…except my cousin because she has the debating skills of a fence post and running rings around her with why the idea of god is a flawed thought is just too much fun…yes i’m terrible i know.

  36. 0
    nightwng2000 says:

    Must we?  Must we REALLY go there?

    I REALLY need to write that book.  Then I can just say "Look at page(s) so-n-so for my response".  Would make things so much easier.

    Photoshopper project:  Have these people standing inside a glass church, holding rocks at the ready to throw at people outside.

    Nightwng2000

    NW2K Software

    http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000

    Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

  37. 0
    jedidethfreak says:

    I notice you have a problem with the body count that the Catholic church has put up hundreds of years ago, but, instead of comparing that to the body count that Muslims put up today, you throw out your own vitriol.

    You KILL Vampires. You don’t DATE them.

  38. 0
    gellymatos says:

    He didn’t say they made it worse. He said that abstinence was better. Technically, he’s right. 100% is bette than 97% or 98%, whether you believe in contraception or not. It was that one woman who said it was making it worse. If you’re going to get good sources, I suggest you get ones that are as least biased as possible.

  39. 0
    Ratros says:

    Generally the Church is the Catholics, as generally the Guy is the Fonz…or myself…take your pick.

    I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"

  40. 0
    Zephyrus says:

    the problem is not necessarily all "organized religion," that would be akin to saying that all corporations are pilfering and corrupted bastions of evil, don’t get me wrong a lot are, but there are also exceptions

    the problems are the people in positions of power or authority using that to try to enforce there personal and moral beliefs on everyone else who do not abide by those beliefs, in many cases this just happens to be someone in a position of power within the church, and those morals have a religious swing to them, or people use their "correct" religious views as a mace because they’ve been raised so brain washed that they can’t accept any other possibility of "truth," personally i think religious indoctrination is far more dangerous than any videogame, unforunately in the world we live in common sense and logical thinking have down the proverbial crapper (can you tell i’m a cynic? :P) 

    unfortunately though you can’t blame the dark ages on the church :p, that would be the germanic tribes that sacked Rome and collapsed the empire that caused that

    my two cents

     

  41. 0
    gellymatos says:

    "No, instead your groups are trying to censor free speech, teach lies in schools, and teach people lies that hold back our advancement as a species."
     

    I’m sorry, but what do you mean by "your groups". Be specific. There are catholics, baptists, anglicans, etc. Don’t just bunch us all in the same group then accuse us of the same thing. In the case of catholics, you really don’t know what you’re talking about. When have as a faith tried to censor anything? And when you say "teach lies", I assume you’re refering to creationism. The catholic church has accepted the theory of evolution as having not conflict with our beliefs and that it is a viable theory to believe in. Do you know what school taught me evolution. A catholic school. So please, stop generalizing, look up your facts, and then make a claim.

  42. 0
    Pinworm says:

     "We messed up, but we aren’t pulling that harsh crap anymore."

    No, instead your groups are trying to censor free speech, teach lies in schools, and teach people lies that hold back our advancement as a species.

    Thus, still anti-religion when religion when religion pulls stuff like this. Understand?

  43. 0
    gellymatos says:

    Ah, yes, good times. These examples seem to focus on catholicism, my faith to be exact. I don’t see any crusades happening now, do you? Nor any inquisition. We messed up, but we aren’t pulling that harsh crap anymore.

    And why anti-organized-religion? It isn’t every organized religion under the sun attacking videogames. So, attacking all organized religions for the wrong of one hardly seems fair either, does it?

  44. 0
    chadachada321 says:

    Not anti-religion. Just anti-organized-religion. Or are you denying the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Dark Ages, and practically every other Church-based problem…

    -Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

  45. 0
    Bennett Beeny says:

    "It is up to the parents of Christian families to keep their children away from anything that might inflict damage to their beliefs. "Tighter laws" implies that its the goverment’s job to take a parenting role…"

    You have to understand that Britain does not have a separation of church and state like certain other countries. Britain is a Christian nation and laws are made with respect to that. What the church leaders are saying is that it’s the government’s role to defend Christian values. To assume that the church leaders are trying to usurp the parent’s role is to get hold of the wrong end of the stick.

    Now I don’t support their ideas – heck, I reckon their whole organization is built on a fantasy (i.e. that there is a god). But even if there were a god, I still wouldn’t accept the premise that video games are evil. But my point is, you have to understand that in Britain the law and the church are not separate.

  46. 0
    chadachada321 says:

    And if the parents are that neglectful to begin with, it won’t be video games that screw the kid over. He’ll be far more likely to vandalize…abuse drugs…etc etc. Video games are the least of their worries.

    -Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

  47. 0
    djnforce9 says:

    I agree with you. It is up to the parents of Christian families to keep their children away from anything that might inflict damage to their beliefs. "Tighter laws" implies that its the goverment’s job to take a parenting role which I find to be very wrong. This sort of thing only works in the case of neglectful parents who don’t care what their children are doing.

  48. 0
    Thad says:

    No, his point of comparison was games.

    "On this great day of celebrating 20 years since Mandela came out of prison, can we help our young people to come out of the prison of these awful, awful videogames."

  49. 0
    Vake Xeacons says:

    And he used a poem as evidence.

    I can’t take it anymore! People want to bash games, fine! Why does it have to be Christians?

    Go ahead. Bash them. I’m not even going to try to defend these buttheads anymore. All I ask is do not relate me to them. Or them to true followers. I follow Christ, not these hypocrits who think publicity is the way to salvation.

  50. 0
    Ratros says:

    Only believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. 

     

    Old saying.  Don’t know who said it, but just cause someone says that the Bible is God’s book doesn’t mean it is.  Furthermore, for something to have existed for so long and not be mistranslated or have things added to better suit the individual is impossible.

    I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"

  51. 0
    chadachada321 says:

    If I saw no legal reason as to why I shouldn’t cross the line, I would in fact be MORE likely to cross it if a cop told me not to, because I hate cops as a whole. Not all cops, just the abusive/dickish ones (most of them).

    I wouldn’t steal from a small store (like a Mom and Pop store) because it’s a dickish thing to do. I would steal from a Walmart or Meijer (and have before) if I knew that I wouldn’t get in trouble for it, because they’ve got plenty of money to spare.

    -Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

  52. 0
    ZippyDSMlee says:

    Some thigns are speffically written for the times and its the chruch who more or less wrote these things as wel. Making Religion© soemthign that should be a basic guide applyed to the times not a absolute guide that overrides the times….

     


    Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! CP/IP laws should not effect the daily life of common people! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/

  53. 0
    Monte says:

    Now when did i say a person was always "wrong" to break the rules; that there was no exception?… what i said was that when you break the rules you should not expect to go unpunished, and that their would consquences… Which is what happened to those certain people when they first broke those rules… they knew their would be consquences and accepted it knowing their sacrfice would lead to a better life and proving the rules themselves were wrong.

    Furtharmore we should understand a big difference in those situations… Blacks first questioned the laws that segregated them, and wanted to change them, but they had no such voice… they broke the rules only as a means to start a dialouge to change the rules… Eve broke the rules of eden for no other reason than to eat forbidden fruit.

    Its one thing if you are trying to say the rules are wrong and should be changed… its another thing if you are just breaking them for no real reason.

  54. 0
    F__ked up says:

     

    Police Officers used to tell a certain group of people not to sit at the Front of the bus, not to drink out of a certain water fountain, could not go to a certain school, and not to use a certain bathroom.

    But then that group of people had to go and sit at the front of the bus. go to those schools. They were never right to go and break those rules. They were wrong. WRONG WRONG.


     

    I am a critical thinker not a dumbass conservative or a jackass liberal

    Pedophiles are the new Nazi / Communist. Labeling someone a Pedophile will get them blacklisted even though there is no evidence.

    Murder is not a crime when done in self defense, a time of war, or when done by court order (death penalty). People cry murder when fetus are aborted. How about when the mother could die? The mother is 13 years old? The mother was raped? The child is a product of incest? Is foster care really the best answer for children who’s parents cant take of them? How many children actually end up in foster care when their parents are dead beats?

    A 14 year old is child when they have sex but is an adult when they commit murder?

  55. 0
    F__ked up says:

     

    God Also says

    "He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death." (Exodus 21:16)

    Which is why do not understand how the slave traders that were kidnapping people in Africa were not killed.

    God also said

    Genesis chapter 17, verse 12:

    And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised.

    Exodus chapter 12 verse 43:

    The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, "These are the regulations for the Passover: No foreigner is to eat of it. Any slave you have bought may eat of it after you have circumcised him, but a temporary resident and a hired worker may not eat of it.

    Exodus Chapter 21, verse 1:

    Now these are the ordinances which you shall set before them. When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master’s and he shall go out alone. But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for life.

    Exodus Chapter 21, verse 20:

    If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

    Exodus Chapter 21, verse 32:

    If the bull gores a male or female slave, the owner must pay thirty shekels of silver to the master of the slave, and the bull must be stoned.

    Leviticus Chapter 22, verse 10:

    No one outside a priest’s family may eat the sacred offering, nor may the guest of a priest or his hired worker eat it. But if a priest buys a slave with money, or if a slave is born in his household, that slave may eat his food.

    Leviticus Chapter 25, verse 44:

    Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

    Luke, Chapter 7, verse 2:

    Now a centurion had a slave who was dear to him, who was sick and at the point of death. When he heard of Jesus, he sent to him elders of the Jews, asking him to come and heal his slave. And when they came to Jesus, they besought him earnestly, saying, "He is worthy to have you do this for him, for he loves our nation, and he built us our synagogue." And Jesus went with them. When he was not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to him, saying to him, "Lord, do not trouble yourself, for I am not worthy to have you come under my roof; therefore I did not presume to come to you. But say the word, and let my servant be healed. For I am a man set under authority, with soldiers under me: and I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes; and to my slave, ‘Do this,’ and he does it." When Jesus heard this he marveled at him, and turned and said to the multitude that followed him, "I tell you, not even in Israel have I found such faith." And when those who had been sent returned to the house, they found the slave well.

    Colossians, chapter 3, verse 22:

    Slaves, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but in singleness of heart, fearing the Lord. Whatever your task, work heartily…

    We are disobeying God. We must bring back slavery.

    We must also bring back stoning people to death as punishment.

    Remember God Loves you.


    I am a critical thinker not a dumbass conservative or a jackass liberal

    Pedophiles are the new Nazi / Communist. Labeling someone a Pedophile will get them blacklisted even though there is no evidence.

    Murder is not a crime when done in self defense, a time of war, or when done by court order (death penalty). People cry murder when fetus are aborted. How about when the mother could die? The mother is 13 years old? The mother was raped? The child is a product of incest? Is foster care really the best answer for children who’s parents cant take of them? How many children actually end up in foster care when their parents are dead beats?

    A 14 year old is child when they have sex but is an adult when they commit murder?

  56. 0
    Monte says:

    So are you saying that if you knew of a way to steal frm the store that you were 100% certain to get away with the crime and thus avoid any and all consequences, you would steal from the store? just because there are no consquences does not mean what you did wasn’t wrong

    If a police officer warns you not to cross over a line, would you just do it anyway? I do think i recall a study that showed people more willing to do what an officer tells them even if they don’t understand why.

    Does a parent really need to point out that their child will be punished if they break one of their rules, or is punishment obvious? I really don’t think a parent needs to add "or you will be grounded" to every rule they make

    That’s what a "rule" is… it is something that you are not alloud to do, and it is something that has consequences to it. That’s right in its very nature… you are free to question the rules, asking if they are fair and what is there purpose(you do not need to be "blind")… but by no means does having no understanding of the purposes or consequences of the rules give you the right to break the rules and go unpunished.

  57. 0
    chadachada321 says:

    I wouldn’t steal from a store because I know of the consequences for doing it.

    However, if someone told me to "not step over this line," but provided no reason other than "I told you not to," I’m going to step over the line. I don’t show blind faith in something without proof/reason, and at which point it no longer becomes faith.

    -Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

  58. 0
    hellfire7885 says:

    It doesn’t help when people like the preacher in the article start stacking on rules that their god didn’t even speak of.

    Part of why I do beleive in a higher being or beings, just not that one.


  59. 0
    Monte says:

     Its pretty simple as far as i can see… If God tells you not to eat from a tree then you should not eat from the tree… If you are indeed a trustworthy person, you would follow that rule regardless… A fence should not be needed, nor should there be any fear of the you listening to a snake; why should God warn you about a snake when its clear that the snake is telling you to do something you should not; i mean if someone told you to steal from a store would you do it? Even if that someone was your own brother that’s still the same crime and just as wrong; you knew it was wrong but you did it anyway.

    I mean that’s part of the point of the bible… it’s less "what really happened", and more "what can we learn from these stories". Hell the tree could be seen as a test; will you follow god’s one and only rule about living in paradise, or will you break his rule… if you are willing to break his one and only rule for no reason then that just reflects badly upon yourself. 

  60. 0
    Cerabret100 says:

    Being a very logic based person, this is a major reason why i’ve never gotten in to religion, there are just so many situations where i think "but wait…if he’s all powerful, why didn’t he just do this, or do that in the first place?"

    To me, it just doesn’t make sense in a lot of places.

  61. 0
    Pyri says:

    So someone who enjoys "violent and sexual DVDs" is therefore on the "other side"?

    The other side of whom? And there are only bad persons?

    I consider myself a Christian too, and I wouldn’t want to be represented that way – by people who obviously think I’m evil just when I want to confront myself with things they maybe don’t want to be confronted with, dark topics and so forth

    Why do they not want to be confronted with violence or sexuality? What are they afraid of? The human condition? But they are human!

    I really cannot understand this. And such things threaten my inner self. What politics are this?

     

    humanity +love

  62. 0
    gellymatos says:

    "Keep your religion private and in your own home please, and most definately out of politics."

    You can’t just tell people to not to try to put their morality into law/politics. That is all law is: what the people decide is right or wrong. By saying that those who are religious to stay out of politics, you have just asked a group of people to not exercise their right to have a say in the country they live in. All because they don’t believe in the same thing you do. In fact, even fundamentalists haven’t done what you have done, at least from what I know. They haven’t told you to stay out of politics because they think your beliefs are ridiculus. Think about what you said.

  63. 0
    Thad says:

    Whose god?  The one who put a tree in the middle of the garden, told man and woman never to eat from it, then got mad when they did.

    Why’d he put the tree there in the first place?  Couldn’t he have, like, put a fence around it?  Or at least warned Eve not to hang out with the serpent because he’s a bad influence?

    Frankly, I think it all comes off as some very bad parenting.

  64. 0
    DorthLous says:

    See, while I find that man’s comment to be akin to sewer drippage, by saying that God is an "imaginary friend", you’re not keeping your own beliefs at home either. And starting a "He started it war" is both pointless and counter-productive. How about attacking the "meat" of his argument, aka, the regulation possibilities and the annecdotal nightmare of a family member?

  65. 0
    axiomatic says:

    "God’s plan made a hopeful beginning. But man spoiled his chances by sinning. We trust that the story will end in God’s glory. But, at present, the other side’s winning."

    (VOMIT)

    Whose god? Oh right… his.

    Something tells me that he should not be speaking for everyone. Some of us don’t believe in imaginary friends anymore.

    Keep your religion private and in your own home please, and most definately out of politics.

  66. 0
    gellymatos says:

    "Religion is one of the biggest opponents of videogames and those who play them."

    "Perhaps its time to just accept that religion and games don’t mix."

    Allow me to start my comment in the following way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3y3QoFnqZc.

    You can’t just say no religion can be good with videogames. You can’t just say none approve because a few fundamentalists, not even all of them,  say videogames are bad. It’s generalizing.

    Thad’s second paragraph says it perfectly.

  67. 0
    Soldat_Louis says:

    I disagree on that point. Being a Christian never prevented Tracy Hickman from being a great game designer (yeah, I know, he’s not a video game designer, but a roleplaying game designer. However, Dragonlance has already been adapted in video games).

    By the way, it’s always good to know about what our adversaries think, but seriously, who cares about this "former MP" ? I mean, I could care if he had an informed point of view, or new ideas on the subject, or at least some evidence to back what he says. It’s obviously not the case.

  68. 0
    Zerodash says:

    Why the hell does this website continue to post these kinds of stories?  Religion is one of the biggest opponents of videogames and those who play them.  Every time one of these stories comes out, it just starts a flamewar.  Perhaps its time to just accept that religion and games don’t mix. 

  69. 0
    hellfire7885 says:

    That’s the problem with how a lot of these types are. If you shield your kids from the world as it is, they won’t be prepared for ,well, anything unpleasant. You shield them from graphic violence, they’ll panic at the first instance it happens, you shelter them fro msex, their chances of reproducing are fairly shot, you shield them from heatbreak, they’re more likely to go emo after a break up.

    Sheltering is a bad thing to do.


  70. 0
    hellfire7885 says:

    Church themed video games do exist. Problems is, they all kinda suck gameplay wise, thus, no fun. The message or story is lost if you aren’t driven to keep going.


  71. 0
    Cheater87 says:

    Wow religion wanting to destory video games who would of throught. They wants censorship and bannings and seems to want to have "church approved video games". They would love to have games only be allowed to be rated ages 3 and up. Anything above the age of 3 would be banned and burned.


  72. 0
    hellfire7885 says:

    He likely doesn;t have such a disc then, as if it’s up to date it can’t all fit on one disc. It seems to be more of a "They’re bad, but I don’t need ot show you, just take my word for it" move.


  73. 0
    Rodrigo Ybáñez García says:

    Jesus has just facepalmed with this. Seriously. Haiti was destroyed by an earthquake, but violent videogames and porn are way more important than a natural disaster or the destruction of an entire country.

    Benyon also had a compilation of violent games on CD that he was going to show, but he decided not to ruin the “evenings or supper” of attendees by showing it.
     

    And Jesus just headdesk´d with this. What an idiot.

    My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com

  74. 0
    Monte says:

    And i hate it when atheists tell me what i should not believe in and imply that i am stupid and immature for having those beliefs

    Biggest problem with the "imaginary friend" comment is that you are pretty much doing the same thing… you are pretty much saying that everybody who believes in religion is an idiot; as such you are in a way trying to force your beliefs (or lack there of) onto the religious…

    your basically doing pretty much what the highly religious do

  75. 0
    axiomatic says:

    You are right, the "imaginary friend" comment was too far, but damn I hate being told what I believe in by someone else. It pisses me off, and rightfully so IMO.

  76. 0
    DorthLous says:

    Oh, on that I perfectly agree and like both christians and non-christians have noted on this site, those people are egomaniac jerks who either do it for publicity or archaic thinking. I’m on that boat as well and call them out with all of you.

    I just don’t think that poking fun or worst at others’ beliefs is the way we’ll make any sortof progress on the topic 😉 Thanks for the balanced reply that took my point in consideration and not simply as an opposing view with nothing in it by the way 😉

  77. 0
    Rodrigo Ybáñez García says:

    The fact is that not everybody has the same believings. Not everybody believes in god, but the church still wants to force their dogmas on everything and everyone. They can´t. They shouldn´t.

    The comment of "imaginary friend" maybe was too much, but at the end he said that not everybody believes in god.

    My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com

  78. 0
    ChrowX says:

    If seeing a single videogame gave a person nightmares, that seems more like an argument against the church, which is causing people to raise their children to be weak-willed and psychologically imbalanced in such a way that pixelated blood and gore can give them nightmares and scar them for life. However, I’d bet these folks would sing the praises of "The Passion of the Christ" up and down, despite it being a giant snuff film.

    What I find most curious about this whole thing is that they consider watching acts of intense violence to be a sin, though I’m pretty sure there is nothing in the Bible that says violence is a sin.. In fact, much of the Old testament stuff called for a lot of murder and rock throwing as punishment.

    Actually.. Does the bible ever saying anything about viewing depictions of violence, murder, or porn? Is it a sin to write about these things? If you accidentally see it happen, does that count as a sin? Will these silly men have to go and repent for even talking about such things? The whole thing is quite… Stupid.

  79. 0
    Thad says:

    Er, well, Hickman DID retcon the entire Dragonlance pantheon into something a lot more monotheist-friendly (in the backmatter of Dragons of a I’ve-Really-Lost-Track-at-This-Point — whatever the end of that trilogy with Mina and the Knights of Neraka was), and I think it made for a much less interesting cosmology as a result.

    But your larger point is perfectly valid.  Lumping all religions into the same umbrella is absurd.  Fundamentalists of any stripe are the problem, and it’s not fair to compare all religious people to fundamentalists any more than it is to compare all atheists to Stalin.

  80. 0
    Shadow D. Darkman says:

    Wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t exist, let alone they did exist and the trauma story is fabricated.

    —————————–

    "A Chrono Trigger is anything that unleashes its will or desire to change history!" -Gaspar

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