Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

March 3, 2011 -

Minecraft creator Markus 'Notch' Persson told attendees of the GDC Indie Games Summit that the notion of piracy as being theft is incorrect.

"Piracy is not theft," said Persson during the session. "If you steal a car, the original is lost. If you copy a game, there are simply more of them in the world. There is no such thing as a 'lost sale.' Is a bad review a lost sale? What about a missed ship date?"

Persson suggested to attendees that many developers see pirates not as "inherently evil, but as potential customers." Persson also took on comments made by Nintendo’s Satoru Iwata, saying that his criticism of small and rampant mobile and social games excludes the fact that games such as Minecraft are more of a service than a one-time purchase. Persson said that games such as his creation and Angry Birds are constantly adding updates and new content and that both have incredible sales numbers.

"Treat game development as a service," he said. "Make a game last longer than a week. You can't pirate an online account."

Source: Edge by way of C&VG


Comments

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

Yes, making a copy of something that you don't have the owner's permission to make a copy of is theft.  A form of theft to be specific.  There are more specific terms that describe such an act but "theft" is not incorrect.

"And technically, it is not theft, at least from a legal perspective."

Eh, yes and no.  It depends on exactly what you mean.  It's certainly legally distinct in the application of criminal charges and statutory punishments but theft, even legally, is just a generic term for taking someone else's stuff without their permission.

It's kind of like embezzlement.  It's legally distinct by its means and methods but still falls under the general umbrella of "theft."

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

For me, it ultimately comes to this:

Did you get something you didn't earn and have no right to?

It's easy for Notch to say that piracy is not theft.  He has an incredibly successful (and good) game.  But his business model for it is a service... and yes, you can't steal a service.  But there are others out who's business models are to provide a product and in that piracy CAN equal theft. 

-------

Morality has always been in decline. As you get older, you notice it. When you were younger, you enjoyed it.

------- Morality has always been in decline. As you get older, you notice it. When you were younger, you enjoyed it.

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

  Wait now.  I'm not saying I will not agree with you but you have made me think about it in a way I haven't before.

  You say that copying something that does not belong to you is theft.

  While I could see copying something and selling it as genuine being fraud, I can't quite say that copying something for personal use is theft necessarily.

  Example.

  I see my neighbor's brand new boat he has designed over the fence.  He allows me to see it in intimate detail and even take it out on the water and tells me I can buy it for $20,000.00.  When I get home I build my own boat with all the materials I have and it is an exact duplicate of his boat that I use only for private use and not for sale.  While admittedly a copy, did I steal? 

  If I sit down with paints and a wood canvas and paint an exact replica (if it were possible) of the Mona Lisa and hang it on my wall, did I steal the Mona Lisa?

If I see a style of decoration in a magazine and copy it completely in my house without paying the decorator, is it theft?  Where is the moral line?  If I am capable of recreating something I see out of materials I already own am I stealing?

Also the thought that ideas can be stolen.  When I draw pictures of Superman out of my imagination (not looking at a specific drawing of him) for my sketchbook, have I stolen the Superman idea?  While I have not copied a specific rendering I have copied the idea of who and what Superman is for my drawing.

 

I'm not saying one way or the other I'm just doing a philosophical exercise here.

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

You bring up an interesting point.  If you sit down and paint a canvas that's exactly the mona lisa, you have stolen the design of the mona lisa.  Which in many ways is just fine.  People do derivative works all the time.  But the important distinction is that you've put in the time and energy to repaint the mona lisa.  Which requires you to have the skill to do it and also to put in the effort.

The effort of building a boat is the same.  You have put in the effort to build that boat even if the design of the boat is not yours.  Not everyone has the skill to build a boat, even given all the materials and plans to build it.

If you were a boat manufacturer and I gave you all the materials to build a boat.  Should I expect you to build the boat for free?  If you have built a boat and are going to sell it, can I just take it and the give you the materials?  Why not? You haven't really "lost" anything, you still have the materials of the boat.

The big problem is that software requires little to no materials to use and very little to copy but few people have the skill to create it even given the materials.

If you feel like getting all the software to create from scratch Call of Duty... I say... absolutely, you are welcome to copy it that way (and many people do - arguably better or worse).  

If you pull it off in less than 20 years (by yourself), I would like to offer you a job ;)

 

------- Morality has always been in decline. As you get older, you notice it. When you were younger, you enjoyed it.

------- Morality has always been in decline. As you get older, you notice it. When you were younger, you enjoyed it.

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

"While I could see copying something and selling it as genuine being fraud, I can't quite say that copying something for personal use is theft necessarily."

Of course it's theft.  A publisher is selling a game for $20.  You take a copy without paying for it.  You've stolen it, therefore, you've committed theft.

Now, if you saw a game you wanted to play and instead of buying a copy decided to make your own, that's fine as long as it's just for your personal use (in other words, you can't sell or distribute it).  Is it stealing?  Yes and no.  You made the game yourself but you did steal the idea, characters, story, and whatnot.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

but everything created is in some way copied from something prior - it's the crux of innovation and creation as we currently know it. Shakespear copied from many others before him, for example, but no one is calling him a thief.

the problem is that you're talking about something that is inherently copyable. if a band is playing an outdoor concert and I don't pay to get in but rather sit outside the fence, I can still hear what they are doing for free. you can't charge for vibrations through the air - it is inherently copyable or steal-able... would you support a band charging you for air vibrations? of course not. then I go home to my own band and use the same chord progressions as the 'free' music I just heard and make money from it. sorry, not stealing even if you could copyright a chord progression, that's how all content is created, not just music.

I don't disagree that some piracy is indeed theft but again, you're steamrolling over the nuanced points that actually do matter. there's no single answer for this problem, it must be considered on a case-by-case basis and even then it can quickly become vague.

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

Well sure but Shakespeare was inspired by others and created his own works.  He didn't copy it.

Your concert example is the same thing.  If you're inspired by the band and create your own song (even if you use similar chord progressions) then that's totally fine.  But, if you go home and write the same song and sell it, that's stealing.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

The whole damn creative industry thrives on what you call "theft". Watch this if you don't believe me:

http://www.everythingisaremix.info/watch-the-series/

-Greevar

-Greevar

"Paste superficially profound, but utterly meaningless quotation here."

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

You are aware that I've been talking about downloading entire video games without paying for them and not sampling a song's bass riff or making a movie based on a property you own the rights to, right?

That said, very cool little video series.  I'll definitely watch the last two parts when they come out.


Andrew Eisen

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

This ties in to your whole "copying without permission is theft" soap box. This actually points out that if we all took your standpoint to heart, some great works would never had been made.

"You are aware that I've been talking about downloading entire video games without paying for them and not sampling a song's bass riff or making a movie based on a property you own the rights to, right?"

And that makes it different? What does it matter the amount and nature of the work being copied? According to you, taking the works of others without permission is theft. By your own opinion, these people are all thieves.

-Greevar

-Greevar

"Paste superficially profound, but utterly meaningless quotation here."

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

that's actually not true, shakespeare copied many previous works as all content creators do. a great op-ed article about this exact topic:

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110215/11165113112/would-shakespeare-...

there is a distinction between plagarism, copying and inspiration. in the realm of creativity, only plagarisim is considered an offense. in fact, artists have a saying: imitation is the highest form of flattery.

we don't re-invent the wheel everytime something is created. it is how creativity evolves. the current copyright law paradigm is broken because it doesn't take this into account and why it is ultimately pointless to try and assign any empirical truth to either side of the debate.

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

Huh, news to me if true but my point still remains.  Inspiration is fine, stealing is not.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

you're missing the main point:

copying does not imply theft and therefore cannot be equivalent in all cases. in fact, the shakespeare example shows us that copying and theft are actually rarely the same thing. inspiration and copying are not the same thing either and like I said, in terms of creativity, there's nothing wrong with either one. plagarism is bad because you're taking credit for the creation which is an entirely different issue.

in case you're curious, here's another article that lists all of the previous works shakespeare 'borrowed' from just for King Lear:

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090621/1753275301.shtml

the question being: could shakespeare have written King Lear in today's copyright environment? the answer is almost definitely no. copyright law is broken if it deprives us of great works. to use that broken law to make blanket statements makes those statements broken as well.

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

"copying does not imply theft"

It does if you had no right to copy it.  It does if you distribute it or sell it.

"could shakespeare have written King Lear in today's copyright environment?"

If he stole it from someone else, who cares?

"copyright law is broken if it deprives us of great works."

If the great works are just stolen from someone else, then we're not being deprived.

Besides, after giving the article you posted a quick read, I think King Lear would have been just fine.

 

Andrew Eisen

 

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

>> I think King Lear would have been just fine

wait, you're saying that Groklaw is wrong and that you're right? that's some good lulz.

i know Groklaw's credentials, what are yours?

did I just waste my time writing on here? ;P

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

No, that's not at all what I'm saying.  I totally could be wrong.  I haven't read Lear in well over a decade, I haven't read any of the other works it's supposedly based on/ripping off, and I only gave the article a passing read.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

maybe that's not what you're trying to say but that's literally exactly what you said - you disagreed with Groklaw that King Lear would not have been written under current copyright law saying: it would have been just fine.

but again you're not staying on point. focus! :)

WHY would King Lear not survive under copyright law? because copying, with or without permission, is essential for the birth of new creative works. Current copyright law has your mindset: copying is theft EXCEPT in X situations. that's backwards. it should be: copying is perfectly legal EXCEPT in X situations. copyright started as a way to defend against plagarism, which is the real enemy, not copying.

again the point here is that not all copying without permission is theft. King Lear is an example of how you can't make that blanket statement.

the problem with blanket statements is that it takes only one single scenario to prove the entire statement invalid. there's just too many exceptions for "copying without permission = theft" to be a truism.

maybe it's just a word/definition thing but in this particular debate, if it's going to be anywhere close to an intelligent debate, we need to be careful about the words we choose.

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

"copyright started as a way to defend against plagarism, which is the real enemy, not copying."

Actually, copyright started as a response to the printing press which offered easy reproduction of seditious books. It was a censorship law and still is.

-Greevar

-Greevar

"Paste superficially profound, but utterly meaningless quotation here."

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

nah, the Stationers' Register was created to make sure someone else could not take credit for or republish a work already 'registered' with them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stationers%27_Register

"The Stationers' Register was a record book maintained by the Stationers' Company of London. The company is a trade guild given a royal charter in 1557 to regulate the various professions associated with the publishing industry, including printers, bookbinders, booksellers, and publishers in England. The Register itself allowed publishers to document their right to produce a particular printed work, and constituted an early form of copyright law."

you're talking about the Licensing of the Press Act of 1662, 100+ years after the Stationers' Register:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licensing_of_the_Press_Act_1662

"An Act for preventing the frequent Abuses in printing seditious treasonable and unlicensed Bookes and Pamphlets and for regulating of Printing and Printing Presses."

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

Wow what a letdown.  I hoped you would have at least considered my example questions.  Ah well.  Will someone else take a stab?

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

I did.  I thought my hypothetical video game example summed it up rather nicely.

"Is it stealing?  Yes and no.  You made the game yourself but you did steal the idea, characters, story, and whatnot."

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

"Yes and no"

You cop out when it comes down to brass tacks Eisen. You've taken a reactionary moral position and when faced with just some of the complexities of copyright law in real life you cop out. Lame.

 

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

No. 'Theft', as defined by law, is the unlawful taking of another's property, thereby depriving the owner/creator of said property.

(Digital) Piracy does not remove the property from it's owner/creator. It is duplication of media without consent. Thus it is not theft, but misappropriation of copyright. (see Dowling Vs. United States)

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

Which can be considered a form of theft according to the lawyers I've spoken with and the legal dictionaries I've consulted.  Additionally, I don't know where you're getting your definition but the law dictionaries I've looked at don't include the line "thereby depriving the owner/creator of said property."

That's not to say misappropriation of copyright isn't legally distinct.  It is and I said as much earlier. 

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

But the fact remains that US Courts have have already established that Piracy IS NOT Theft. Argue it with all the lawyers you want (paragons of law!!), but this is legal precedent. Equating piracy to theft has not, and will not, hold up in court!

Ergo, my post stands.

Oh, and in the first ten results from a google search re: theft, colorful variants to my 'depriving' are "removing" and "carrying away". Those any better for you?

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

Yes, there's a legal distinction.  I've already said that.  And no, your google results don't mean much to me.

Removing a physical object from someone's possession is a form of theft, no argument there.  But "theft," in its most general sense, is simply the act of stealing.  Stealing does not require that a physical object be removed from someone's possession.

As far as the US Courts go, I don't recall a decision claiming with finality that piracy is not a form of theft but honestly, I don't really care.  After all, it's not like the courts have never been wrong.  I do however recall a decision on some case where the judge said it couldn't easily be equated with theft but I flatout disagree.

Eh, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what you call it.  The debate is really silly and pointless but it sure is fun sometimes.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

It is NOT silly and pointless. This is the level of discourse you are capable of?! I am shocked. There is great room for debate about the whole copyright system and right now some things can be copyrighted and some things cannot. Where is the discussion on the current system, why some categories are ok, like a one click, online shopping "business method” and others are not ok, like a Gucci dress? How long should copyright protect a given work? Surely do you not think that copyright should exist forever? If so then why is it stealing during the first 70 years after the author's death but not afterwards? 

Remember copyright only exists (well, besides lobbying politicians) to try and extend human knowledge and creative works. It is believed that without copyright less people will create and publish works as they would not profit from them. Hence we as a society offer a contract, publish your work and its details and be given legal right to be sole distributor of said work.

There is a lot of complexity and a lot to discuss. You do us all a great disservice when you wrong-headedly simplify the issue the way you do.

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

And with those words, you finished flooding your boat. The line that you crossed entirely was the distinction between "It is theft" and "I think it is theft". You bash your lines over and over as if they hold proof just by themselves yet you refuse both legal argument as well as mass consideration. Aka, any arguments that won't fit your view, you discard. As such, the only line you can rightfully wield is the "I think it is theft", not the "It is theft" as you have established no proof nor coherent reasoning to establish it.

 

While as a game studio owner I have my own opinion on copyright infringment and "piracy" (man I hate that word, so wrongly chosen) and as an individual pay each and everyone of my hundreds of games and softwares, that still doesn't mean I'm willing to forego integrity, facts or discussion to satisfy my views. I feel you are doing a great disservice to this community with your numerous posts on the subject, biasing the apparent tone of the conversation on this site and forcing your agenda on others. Please reflect further on what you really are contributing before doing so further. Thank you.

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

I'll say it again: piracy is a form of theft.  It's theft because the act of piracy fits the definition of theft both coloquially and legally.  I have consulted regular as well as legal dictionaries and I have spoken to several people in the know.  I have listened to many other opinions but haven't come across anything that has changed my mind.  "No coherant reasoning" indeed.

That said, saying I don't care what the courts say was definitely going too far.  Truth be told, I'd be most interested to read another court decision on the subject but I still might not agree with it just as I don't agree with the conclusion of the one I read, which didn't even say that piracy isn't theft, only that it can't be easily equated as such.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

I agree. Piracy is theft. The violent act of boarding a ship by force and taking property that is not yours is a form of theft. In addition to DorthLous's comment, you continually assert that infringment (aka piracy) is theft. Why is that I wonder? I'm sure it's because you're afraid that if you give up that ground, you'll have nothing much else left to stand on. Your claim that such behavior is equitable to theft has been based on merely your assertion that is it so.

-Greevar

-Greevar

"Paste superficially profound, but utterly meaningless quotation here."

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

Amazing. You've managed not only ignore his explaination of how infringement is theft, but attempted to imply some sort of alterior motive. It wouldn't even be an issue if you had attempted a counter argument to his points. But no. Ignore points. Imply alterior motive.

 

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

I ignored it because it's unsubstantiated bullshit based on mere assumptions. I've explained this to him in other posts. US legal code defines theft as the taking of property with the intent to deny the owner of it. Copyright infringement doesn't even come close to satisfying the critera of theft in the eyes of the law. That's why it's tried in court as infringement.

-Greevar

-Greevar

"Paste superficially profound, but utterly meaningless quotation here."

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

And Eisen has been saying he consulted legal experts and law dictionaries... so you may want to provide a source instead of just calling his claims "unsubstantiated bullshit".

Personally, i've been trying to find the legal definition of theft and have found several sources that do not include "denying the owner of their property"... Or have several definitions, one of which does include that element and one that does not; as in both are correct. But then again, these are internet sources i'm looking up

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

"criminal law  the dishonest taking of property belonging to another person with the intention of depriving the owner permanently of its possession"

dictionary.reference.com/browse/theft

There you go. Furthermore, creative works are also not considered property either. The copyright is property, the thing that copyright covers is not. It says as much in the copyright law text. You could sue my ass off in court for violating your copyright, but the court will not prosecute me for theft because I copied a copyrighted work.

-Greevar

-Greevar

"Paste superficially profound, but utterly meaningless quotation here."

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

Maybe you should try scrolling down the page...

Legal Dictionary

Main Entry: theft 
Function: noun 
Etymology: Old English thiefth 
LARCENYbroadly  

a criminal taking of the property 

or services of another 

without consent 

 

and there YOU go... The site you quote has several definitions for the term theft only one of which specifically mentions depriving the owner of its possession. This is why i wanted a quote from something like the US legal code that you were talking about as opposed to just google internet definitions. The internet seems to go both ways; though when you specify legal or law definitions they tend to exclude the part about depriving the owner of the property stolen.  

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

I still don't see a definition that supports that copyright infringement is theft. All of those definitions mention property which, as I said before, copyrighted works are not property. The rights are property of the holder, but the works they apply to are not. Even still, all of the definitions refer to the owner being without something they previously had. That is not the case here.

-Greevar

-Greevar

"Paste superficially profound, but utterly meaningless quotation here."

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

 Actually, using the same dictionary website... one of the definitions for property is:

"something of value, either tangible, such as land, or intangible, such as patents, copyrights, etc"

And as i just pointed out, no not every definition of theft specifies that the owner be deprived of the property stolen. the legal definition i quoted above states the item was taken without permission but does not specify that the owner is deprived of said item. Which makes sense since property can include non-physical intangible items. 

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

The fact still remains that it isn't property. The copyright is the property. The work in itself belongs to the public. You just have a temporary right to exclude others from receiving a copy. When I take a copy without your permission, I violate your right to exclude me, but I haven't taken your property.

-Greevar

-Greevar

"Paste superficially profound, but utterly meaningless quotation here."

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

i feel like the walls are closing in on me!  how small can these things get?


Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

I suppose.

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

AE:If that were true thinking about a crime is the same as doing the crime and no you can not separate these mindsets so don't even try.  Sorry but just making a copy is not theft on any level, it is copy right infringement but so are copy rights lasting 2 or 3 times longer than a persons life.

 

Looking at the how and why copy right was created in the first place its all about limiting profit to the IP owner(not creator, as owner trumps creator). Looking at IP distribution 100 years ago and today you see that distribution and profit were inseparable but once digital media and the internet came into being distribution and profit are easily separated.

PS:Nice try, embezzlement is the same as stealing as what you are moving from one place to another is not data but actual limited funds.


I have a dream, break the chains of copy right oppression! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/2010/05/21/cigital-disobedience/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

"If that were true thinking about a crime is the same as doing the crime"

No, nothing I said would make thinking about a crime the same as doing a crime.

"Sorry but just making a copy is not theft on any level..."

If you don't have the rights to make a copy, and you do it anyway, then yes, it's theft, or stealing, or copyright infringement or whatever you want to call it.

"Nice try, embezzlement is the same as stealing..."

I know.  That's my point.  Theft is the act of stealing.  If you're stealing, then what you're doing can accurately be described as theft.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

"No, nothing I said would make thinking about a crime the same as doing a crime."

Ya because you refuse to see the slippery slope you are going down. We do not need corporate restricting the public's free expression and rights via antiquated and vague copy right rules and laws.

You ensure that profit or the attempt to make a profit off indexing and linking to  copy righted files/items(online or offline) in whole or part may only be done by licensee's you allow enough wiggle room as so the public and the IP rights holders rights do not entangle and damage the other.
 

"I know.  That's my point.  Theft is the act of stealing.  If you're stealing, then what you're doing can accurately be described as theft."

....... the problem is a copy is unlimited and not in any way the same as moving a limited item.

 


I have a dream, break the chains of copy right oppression! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/2010/05/21/cigital-disobedience/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

"Ya because you refuse to see the slippery slope you are going down."

Even if that were true, that still wouldn't make thoughts and actions the same.

"We do not need corporate restricting the public's free expression and rights via antiquated and vague copy right rules and laws."

Stealing other people's stuff is not a public right.

"...the problem is a copy is unlimited and not in any way the same as moving a limited item."

That's not a problem.  The fact that copies are unlimited doesn't negate the fact that taking one without the owner's permission is stealing.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

And thus thought is crime.


I have a dream, break the chains of copy right oppression! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/2010/05/21/cigital-disobedience/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

And thus nothing.  Absolutely nothing, not a single solitary thing I've said even approaches the idea of "thought is a crime."

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

And thus thought police, why? Everything and anything can be copy righted and will be. You have to much trust in the process as it is and thus you want and need thought police to protect a few from the many. There is no way around it because that how big government and big biz works. You protect the rights and freedoms of the individuals and you protect everyone, I have said it any times go after profit (making any money period) and not distribution as distribution has become far too common to police without trouncing public freedoms.

I consider current IP law as legal slavery, and thus will have to change and be forced into the modern age where everyone can distribute an idea on a world wide scale.    

 


I have a dream, break the chains of copy right oppression! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/2010/05/21/cigital-disobedience/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

Again, nothing we've discussed in any way leads to some form of thought police.  No one is saying you can't think whatever the heck you want or distribute it on a world wide scale.  In fact, that's exactly what we're doing right now.  Some more coherently than others.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

The information in your brain is just as much a copy as the text in a book. Computers are artificial constructs of the same concept. Therefore thought is a crime, by your argument. Aside from that, if copying is stealing, then every time you make yourself a mix tape, backup your software/games, or move your music/movies to another device, you're "stealing". There's a reason the law doesn't deal with copyright infringement as theft, because it's far too abstract to apply when you realize infringing uses are far too similar to non-infringing uses.

Persson is correct, downloading works that are protected by copyright law is an act of infringement, which is a violation of one's right to choose whom may receive a copy. It is not a title of property to the works you create. It is a right of exclusion, nothing more. It may be illegal to violate this right, but it is not theft according to the law. Just be satisfied that it's illegal at all.

Persson is also right about the "lost sale" excuse. You can't prove that a sale was lost. No one can prove what might have been. So claiming lost sales as harm against your business is just a slant to engender sympathy for your cause. Treating game development as a service is the salvation of the industry, for those that figure that out. I don't see landscapers trying to sell copies of their work. Why? Because they get paid for their labor, which is what the entertainment industry should do. Some of them already are.

-Greevar

-Greevar

"Paste superficially profound, but utterly meaningless quotation here."

Re: Minecraft Creator: Piracy Isn't Theft

"Therefore thought is a crime, by your argument."

Again, no.  That doesn't even begin to make sense.

"Aside from that, if copying is stealing..."

Copying is not automatically stealing.

"Persson is correct..."

I'll have to read Persson (or reread it if my memory's simply failing me) and see if I agree.

"Persson is also right about the "lost sale" excuse."

Don't know exactly what the excuse is or how exactly a "lost sale" is defined but to my thinking, if someone takes my game without compensating me for it, I've lost that sale.

 

Andrew Eisen

 
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Papa MidnightThe Verge says the sequel to Flappy Bird is nearly impossible. http://www.theverge.com/2014/8/21/6053297/swing-copters-flappy-bird-sequel08/21/2014 - 12:22pm
SleakerPC-Gamer wrote an article on what's going on with the Minecraft stuff: http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/08/21/minecraft-bukkit-team-lead-tries-to-end-development-but-mojang-steps-in/08/21/2014 - 11:55am
SleakerEVE had a high-profile ban today: http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/08/20/eve-online-lottery-site-somer-blink-shutting-down/#continued08/21/2014 - 10:26am
SleakerBut where have all the Ethics gone?08/21/2014 - 9:08am
Sleaker@EZK - one of the bigger things is that since Mojang has owned Bukkit for 2 years now, people contributing to the project have basically been doing work for them pro-bono. On top of never formalizing support. They hid the fact probably to prevent support08/21/2014 - 9:07am
SleakerIf you've played on a server with mods/plugins, you've almost for sure played on a Bukkit-based server.08/21/2014 - 8:56am
SleakerHere's Bukkit's explanation attempt at shutting down due to EULA changes: http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/bukkit-its-time-to-say.305106/08/21/2014 - 8:55am
SleakerEZK - it's the largest server mod for MC, in actuality without it minecraft for sure would not have been as popular (#1 game now).08/21/2014 - 8:54am
SleakerTo the point that it seems they have completely lost what it means to be for-community, and having transparency. Along with dumping restrictive EULA's onto people.08/21/2014 - 8:53am
E. Zachary KnightWhat is Bukkit and why should I care?08/21/2014 - 8:53am
SleakerMinecraft community exploded again today. Apparently Mojang owns all of Bukkit, and never put out a statement saying as such 2 years ago when they acquired them. I have to say, their transition from indie has been rough.08/21/2014 - 8:52am
james_fudgeThere aren't many left in America08/21/2014 - 1:50am
MechaTama31I sure have. Dorky's barcade in Tacoma, WA.08/20/2014 - 5:56pm
Matthew WilsonI have not been to a arcade in years. I know arcades are still big in japan.08/20/2014 - 5:38pm
Sleaker@AE - Ah no it's called GroundKontrol - I was just referring to it as a Bar-Arcade.08/20/2014 - 4:39pm
Andrew EisenStill looking for confirmation that High Moon Studios (dev behind the PS3/360 versions) isn't working on it.08/20/2014 - 4:38pm
ZenGotcha.08/20/2014 - 4:37pm
Andrew EisenI already updated the story with it!08/20/2014 - 4:36pm
Zenhttp://www.gonintendo.com/s/235574-treyarch-isn-t-working-call-of-duty-advanced-warfare-for-wii-u-either08/20/2014 - 4:36pm
ZenLet me send the link for the Tweet as well...they state Treyarch is not working on it. Grabbing it now.08/20/2014 - 4:34pm
 

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