Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

April 13, 2011 -

A mere 48 hours after George Hotz and Sony Computer Entertainment America settled their legal dispute, Sony has put its focus back on PS3 hacker graf_chokolo. According to a report on PS3 hacking site PSX-Scene, Sony has visited the home of graf_chokolo for a second time. According to that report, which is based on a post from the man himself, Sony seized a bunch of computer equipment this time around. Here is what he said on his official web site:

"SONY was at my home today again, with a new TRO against me. They took my whole equipment again and told me to stop my OtherOS project or else …. , guys. They definitely do not want OtherOS back on PS3. They want me to take down all my OtherOS and PS3 utils. Make sure to clone all my GIT repositories. I don’t think you want me to stop, guys, do you ? Tell me what you think."

Sony has neither confirmed or denied the report as true, but it would seem pretty silly for a guy that is mucking around with the removed "OtherOS" functions of the PS3 to lie about it. We will have more on this story as it develops.

Source: PSX-Scene


Comments

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

Ah guilty by existing, who needs rights the powers that be rewrite the laws anyway.


I have a dream, break the chains of copy right oppression! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/2010/05/21/cigital-disobedience/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

Zippy, you're so silly. Not a word of that made sense.

"Power means nothing without honor and pride."

http://grifsgamereviews.blogspot.com My video game review site.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

From what I see in most people's comments, the argument is "Sony has no right to remove features from my PS3".

Let's think about this in reverse.

By that logic, they also didn't have the right to put in the Netflix, PSOne classics, Playstation Home, or even trophies functionality into the PS3.

I never asked them to put the functionality into MY system, so I have the right to file a class-action lawsuit because I didn't ask for, or even WANT trophies on MY system that I play MY games on, right?

"Power means nothing without honor and pride."

http://grifsgamereviews.blogspot.com My video game review site.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

So in your world winning the lotto is the same as being mugged?  How can someone's money/investment becoming lower happen if something is added?  It is nowhere even close to the same thing.

People are not mad at the process of things added, as your theory would suggest.  They are worried about  their dollar.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

What about their dollar? Everyone's argument is that Sony doesn't have the right to take away features. By that logic alone, they don't have the right to add features, either. Otherwise, you're just holding a double standard. It's one or the other, you can't have both.

"Power means nothing without honor and pride."

http://grifsgamereviews.blogspot.com My video game review site.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

If they add features your purchase isn't losing value.  Again, you are missing the point.  You aren't having something taken from you that you paid for.  It is only a double-standard in your psycho world where charity and theft are the same thing.

Santa Claus must be a real ponce in your world.  Giving presents to kids and stealing toys from kids are the same thing right?

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

I'm not talking about value. I'm talking about Sony's right, or lack thereof in some people's eyes, to add and take away features as they see fit.

They added trophies, they added Netflix, they added PSOne classics, and suddenly everyone's up in arms because they take out something they never actively advertised.

It's not losing value if it's not a selling point or a listed feature. You know those little mirrors on the back of the visors in a car? The car doesn't lose value if you take those out. They don't gain value if you put them in. It's just something that's there. Those are called "Options".

OtherOS isn't a feature, it's an option. An option Sony chose to remove.

"Power means nothing without honor and pride."

http://grifsgamereviews.blogspot.com My video game review site.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

"I'm not talking about value."

Well everyone else is.  That is why people are mad when something they paid for is taken away.  Welcome to the conversation. 

I'm pretty sure though that even you would be mad if the car dealership that you bought from broke into your car and stole your CD player.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

Again, why are you paying $300+ for an option that isn't even on the box? You can't pay for something that isn't a selling point or a listed feature. You paid for a PS3, not its ability to install Linux.

I'd be mad because I paid for the CD player, I wouldn't be mad if they took away the mirrors on the visors. Option =/= feature.

"Power means nothing without honor and pride."

http://grifsgamereviews.blogspot.com My video game review site.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

"You paid for a PS3, not its ability to install Linux."

You can't seperate the functionality of a product from the product it's self.  I paid for a PS3 that could run Linux, but that is no longer the case.  Therefore what I paid for is GONE.

"I'd be mad because I paid for the CD player"

Just as I am mad they removed the OtherOS feature from the PS3.  I also find it amusing that you think that you get the choice to decide what  is  a "feature" or an "option".  And if I get something, even if it is an option, after I purchase it that option should be mine.  Deciding whether you want an option is hammered out in the purchasing part of the arrangement.  It doesn't work retroactively.

And I can tell you that this is going to make me quite gun shy about purchasing Sony products in the future.  Fool me once, etc etc.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

That's cute.

Yes, yes you CAN seperate the functionality of a product from the product itself. You paid for a PS3. The PS3 just so happened to be able to run Linux. They took away Linux. The PS3 is still there, and it can still do everything that was advertised.

Why you would choose to buy hardware because of a single feature is beyond me. Especially when the back of the box says "System software included within this product is subject to a limited license from Sony Computer Entertainment, Inc." AND "Design and specifications are subject to change without notice". It also lists a neat little website right there on the box that you can go to in order to check the terms of the license before you buy the system.

http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-eula/us/index.html

I took the liberty of skipping the region selection for you.

It's that very agreement that makes me believe that Sony has the right to add and remove features as they wish, and that all those lawsuits are doomed to fail.

Your argument, like a few other's, boils down to nothing more than an overblown case of buyer's remorse.

"Power means nothing without honor and pride."

http://grifsgamereviews.blogspot.com My video game review site.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

"Yes, yes you CAN seperate the functionality of a product from the product itself."

A toaster that can't toast is what then?

"Why you would choose to buy hardware because of a single feature is beyond me."

Why do you choose to buy the things you buy?  By your logic there is no reason to ever buy anything.  Because wanting something for its functionality is apparently foolish.

"Your argument, like a few other's, boils down to nothing more than an overblown case of buyer's remorse."

People get pissed off when their money is stolen.  And I really hope to god that one day that a car dealership does break into your car and tears the mother fucking engine out.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

"Again, why are you paying $300+ for an option that isn't even on the box? You can't pay for something that isn't a selling point or a listed feature."

That's weird, I'm typing this from a $2000 computer that didn't say on the box that I could install Linux on it.  I thought I bought it to install Linux on it, but I must have been mistaken since that's apparently impossible.

I know you saw my post about scientists using PS3's for grid computing, because you replied to it.  Those users clearly purchased PS3's to use as Linux boxes and not as game consoles.  Now, you keep throwing the word "evidence" around but haven't actually produced any.  For future reference, THAT is what evidence looks like.  It's an example of a verifiable fact that supports a claim I've made.

You, meanwhile, still stand at a nice round zero for examples of people using Linux to pirate PS3 games.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

http://www.pvcmuseum.com/playstation/ps3-games-ripped-warez-already.htm

www.techtree.com/India/News/PS3_Piracy_Begins_with_Unmodded_PS3/551-114114-585.html

Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. You got not one, but two examples, and I'm sure a simple Google search can turn up dozens more.

 And also, your argument of scientists using it for grid computing is irrelevant, because they don't connect to the PSN, neither does the U.S. Military. Neither group has done anything against Sony, because their PS3s are unaffected. You can buy a PS3 for an unadvertised feature, that's fine. But you don't have the right to complain when it gets taken out, especially when you agree to the terms of a system update. Sony made it clear before the patch even came out that anyone who upgraded would lose OtherOS.

I maintain that Sony had every right to take away OtherOS functionality because yes, despite what Linux fans believe, their precious OS is very much capable of piracy. People were abusing it to pirate Blu-Ray movies and PS3 games, on top of PS1 and PS2 games.

Anyone with half a brain would be blaming the pirates for ruining it for homebrewers, not Sony for protecting their product.

"Power means nothing without honor and pride."

http://grifsgamereviews.blogspot.com My video game review site.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

Well very good, you found a couple of links, and it only took three days to drag them out of you.  So, cheerfully acknowledged: Linux has been used for PS3 piracy.

I still maintain that legitimate users should not be punished for the actions of pirates.  And indeed I question how serious an issue PS3 piracy was, given that it required more technical knowledge to pull off than simply torrenting an ISO, and the fact that Sony didn't pull the feature until over THREE YEARS after that first link suggests they weren't concerned about it right away either.

I love how you say "two examples" like it's some huge, damning revelation, though.

"And also, your argument of scientists using it for grid computing is irrelevant, because they don't connect to the PSN, neither does the U.S. Military. Neither group has done anything against Sony, because their PS3s are unaffected."

So if they're only irrelevant because they don't use PSN, what does that mean for users who bought the PS3 with the intent of using Linux AND playing games?

"You can buy a PS3 for an unadvertised feature, that's fine. But you don't have the right to complain when it gets taken out, especially when you agree to the terms of a system update. Sony made it clear before the patch even came out that anyone who upgraded would lose OtherOS."

Yes, but Sony did NOT make it clear, at time of purchase, that users would have to choose between the ability to run Linux and the ability to play new games.

"I maintain that Sony had every right to take away OtherOS functionality because yes, despite what Linux fans believe, their precious OS is very much capable of piracy."

Every OS is capable of piracy.  We've been down this road.  Your argument that "it can be used for piracy, therefore it should be banned" could just as easily be applied to any other OS, as well as Web browsers, BitTorrent, DVD burners, blank discs, hard drives, memory sticks, scanners, photocopiers, cameras, phones, audio recorders, pencils, pens, paintbrushes, charcoal, musical instruments, and people's voiceboxes.  I could grab an extension cord right now and in twenty minutes be publicly exhibiting one of my movies on my front lawn, in violation of the terms of sale, so I guess that means my TV, my DVD player, and my movie collection can potentially be used for piracy too.

You're going to have to come up with a better rationale than "two guys used it for piracy".  Some hard numbers would be swell, but of course you don't have them, and Sony hasn't released any.  (Curious, that; you'd think if it would help their case they'd have said something.)

The potential for piracy is everywhere.  Punishing legitimate users for the actions of others is ethically wrong and also bad business.  I know I'm just one guy, but there are plenty of games I haven't bought because of nasty DRM -- meanwhile, pirates can play them all just fine.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

You may not have been around when I said this, so I'll say it again.

I personally don't agree with the "It can be used for piracy, so it should be banned" logic, either. That's not MY logic, that's Sony's. I'm simply saying that, bad PR as it may be, Sony saw fit to see that as enough to remove the OtherOS feature, which, STILL hasn't been proven that they do not have the right to do. That's why we're waiting on the Lawsuits to settle. My one real point in this whole thing is that Sony has the right to take away features from their product, as much as they have the right to add them.

I also agree with the fact that the legitimate users shouldn't be punished for what pirates do, but this is the real world; you can't have everything you want. What you're suggesting is that Sony just bend over and take it from the pirates without doing anything, which, business-wise, is worse than upsetting a fraction of the user base. They just went with the lesser of two evils.

Again, as far as DRM is concerned: Do you have a better idea? I'm sure developers and publishers would love to hear your miracle cure for piracy, at the same time providing no inconvenience whatsoever to legitimate users.

And as far as your comment as to people who bought the PS3 for gaming AND Linux? Well, the PS3 is relatively cheap nowadays. Keep your old one for Linux and buy one for gaming. You're happy, Sony's happy. Everyone wins. The slim ones run better anyway. I personally own a 60GB fat model and a 250 GB slim. Love 'em.

And, again, the rationale that "Two pirates used it" is legally enough for Sony to pull the OtherOS. Again, I'm saying it's not a good move, but it's perfectly legal, and it's better in Sony's eyes than doing nothing.

"Power means nothing without honor and pride."

http://grifsgamereviews.blogspot.com My video game review site.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

"I maintain that Sony had every right to take away the gameplay functionality because yes, despite what gaming fans believe, their precious console is very much capable of copies of those games. People were abusing it to play pirated PS3 games."

 

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. How about you try clicking on the link I posted above, and see for yourself? People were using the OtherOS functionality for piracy.

Does that mean EVERYONE was doing it? No. What it DOES mean is that enough people were doing it to cause Sony concern. Stop being so butthurt and find something else to put Linux on. For the love of pie, it's really not that serious. If you wanna keep it on your PS3, don't update. It's really that simple.

I don't even know why this whole conversation has blown up to this. Sony took out OtherOS, it's not coming back. Deal with it.

It's not like arguing will do anything to help, we'll just have to wait and see how the lawsuits turn out. I don't expect them to succeed, but that's just me. In the meantime, if you have any useful information to contribute, do feel free.

"Power means nothing without honor and pride."

http://grifsgamereviews.blogspot.com My video game review site.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

"What it DOES mean is that enough people were doing it to cause Sony concern."

It only means that if you define "enough" as "two".  You haven't made the case that it was a significant number of people or that Sony's fears of piracy were well-founded.

"I don't even know why this whole conversation has blown up to this. Sony took out OtherOS, it's not coming back. Deal with it."

It already HAS come back; that's what the entire conversation is about.

"if you have any useful information to contribute, do feel free."

Don't worry, I'm sure in about three days he'll come up with a couple of links.  One of them might even be from the past four years.

In the meantime, we'll have to settle for his understanding of logic, purchase value, and the difference between addition and subtraction.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

Hey, genius. One link =/= one person. Your state of denial is amusing at best, and frustrating at worst.

And it seems to me that this entire conversation is about being upset that Sony took out a feature that they had every right to remove. OtherOS is not really back; you won't be satisfied until Sony puts it back, which won't happen.

And honestly? Who do you think you are that you think you get to determine what a significant number of people are. If hackers are all about sharing information as you claim, then that one post is worth at least 1,000 people using it for piracy. Unless you're claiming there's no such thing as someone who hacks for piracy purposes.

And what if it was just one person? One is still enough to found Sony's fears of piracy.

There's nothing wrong with my logic, only that you seem to be in complete and utter denial of the fact that piracy even exists.

And again, I know the difference between adding and subtracting. I'm still waiting on proof that they don't have the right to take away something, while they can add all the useless features they want. Just because it's there doesn't give it more value. And just because they took something away doesn't necessarily mean it's taking away value.

Honestly, I'm starting to think you're just trolling because I don't buy into your "Piracy isn't real" crap. You're not even trying to counter my arguments, or my facts.

"Power means nothing without honor and pride."

http://grifsgamereviews.blogspot.com My video game review site.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

You make a good point.  Adding features is exactly the same as removing them.

By that logic, you should just stab yourself in the eye so you'll have three.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

Your logic fails. If I stab myself in the eye, I'll only have one left.

It is exactly the same, because the complaint is that these people feel that Sony has no right to take away features to their system. So adding features nobody asked for is just as intrusive. Try again.

"Power means nothing without honor and pride."

http://grifsgamereviews.blogspot.com My video game review site.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

While I laud your ability to (1) explain jokes and (2) subtract, I must still maintain that adding features is not the same as removing them.  Sorry.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

How is it not the same? What you just told me, if I understand correctly, is that Sony can add trophies, which I did not want, but not take away Other OS, which I also did not want.

That's an impressive double standard you hold, sir.

"Power means nothing without honor and pride."

http://grifsgamereviews.blogspot.com My video game review site.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

You've gone from demanding that I prove negatives to asking me to explain the difference between addition and subtraction.  Just sad.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

No, I'm asking you to explain how Sony doesn't have the right to take away features like OtherOS, but they have the right to add features like trophies? It's one and the same. I personally don't like trophies, so by your logic, they violated my rights as a consumer, and I now have the right to file a class-action lawsuit.

Again, your logic is holding a double standard. If they can add trophies, they can take away OtherOS.

"Power means nothing without honor and pride."

http://grifsgamereviews.blogspot.com My video game review site.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

Okay, you're right, you aren't "asking me to explain the difference between addition and subtraction", you're asking me to explain the difference between "take away" and "add".  COMPLETELY different.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

Just thought I'd pop in and add this little tidbit:

System software updates that add new features was (and still is) one of the selling points or listed features of the PS3.

Take that as you will.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

That's true. On the same token, OtherOS never was a selling point OR a listed feature of the PS3.

No ads. No statements. Not even on the box.

My point stands. They have the right to take out AND add features. Not one or the other. I can understand if it was something like Blu-Ray functionality or the ability to, I dunno, play PS3 games, but OtherOS was a feature that Sony hardly even acknowledged until it started to get abused.

"Power means nothing without honor and pride."

http://grifsgamereviews.blogspot.com My video game review site.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

Out of curiosity, what would you say if I provided you with a scan of the original PS3 box that listed Linux as a feature, or an archived copy of an old Sony PS3 product page that listed the same, or a link to a YouTube video of a commercial that mentioned it.  I don't have any on hand and I'm not going to bother looking, I'm just curious.

"I can understand if it was something like Blu-Ray functionality..."

Huh.  Didn't see that one coming.  So, at what point is it not okay for Sony to remove features?

Nevertheless, can't wait to see how the various class action lawsuits turn out.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

If you COULD provide such evidence, my argument may perhaps be invalidated. However, I don't recall any sort of advertisment or listing from Sony saying you could install Linux.

I'm saying it is okay for Sony to remove features. I'm also saying that the arguments presented otherwise might hold more weight if they removed an actively advertised feature, such as Blu-Ray functionality, or the ability to play games. I maintain that you pay for the PS3, not the features. And you especially don't pay for options that are hardly even acknowledged by Sony.

I, myself, cannot wait to see how the class-action lawsuits turn out.

If Sony is forced to bring back OtherOS, then I guess they'll have to do what they did with Hotz and go after all the individual hackers who are using it for piracy.

"Power means nothing without honor and pride."

http://grifsgamereviews.blogspot.com My video game review site.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

Open Platform for PLAYSTATION 3:

"There is more to the PLAYSTATION®3 (PS3™) computer entertainment system than you may have assumed. In addition to playing games, watching movies, listening to music, and viewing photos, you can use the PS3™ system to run the Linux operating system.

By installing the Linux operating system, you can use the PS3™ system not only as an entry-level personal computer with hundreds of familiar applications for home and office use, but also as a complete development environment for the Cell Broadband Engine™ (Cell/B.E.)."

That sounds an awful lot like ad copy to me.  They are clearly promoting it as a selling point for the system.  No, it's not on the box, but it IS on the website.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

I knew you were going to pull that. I saw that, too.

That page is not an advertisement, it's an instruction manual. It shows you how to install Linux, provided you haven't downloaded the 3.21 patch.

And you conveniently left out the very first thing you see at the top of the page.

"The Open Platform feature is not available on CECH-2000 series or later models of the PS3™ system."

"On PS3™ system models sold earlier than the CECH-2000 series models, the Open Platform feature will not be available if the system software is updated to version 3.21 or later."

An instruction manual is not an advertisement, or posting a selling point.

On top of that, you can't even find that page, unless you're specifically looking for it, so it rather makes a poor advertisement, don't you think?

"Power means nothing without honor and pride."

http://grifsgamereviews.blogspot.com My video game review site.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

"That page is not an advertisement, it's an instruction manual."

No, the instruction manual is on the page that says "Manual".  The paragraphs I quoted are clearly not instructions, they are hype.

"And you conveniently left out the very first thing you see at the top of the page."

Yeah, I left out the part that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.  Fancy that.

This isn't about Sony's removal of OtherOS from later models of the PS3 which it explicitly told customers, upfront, would not have that support.  It's about Sony's removal of OtherOS from PS3's that were sold with it.

But since you bring it up, yeah, it sure is interesting that the page makes no mention whatsoever of the feature being removed from ALL versions of the hardware.

"On top of that, you can't even find that page, unless you're specifically looking for it, so it rather makes a poor advertisement, don't you think?"

Well of COURSE it's not listed on the main features page anymore; they removed it over a year ago.  But even after that much time it's still on the first page of results for linux ps3.  Anyone who wanted to know if the PS3 would run Linux would have found that page in seconds.

Linux users aren't the main audience for the PS3, so Sony didn't spend big bucks advertising to them.  However, they were AN audience for the PS3, so Sony DID put up ad copy like that on its site, where anyone who was interested could easily find it.

Quibbling over the semantics of what constitutes advertising is another one of your little sideshows.  The point is that there are people who bought PS3's knowing they could run Linux, and that functionality was a factor they weighed in deciding to make the purchase.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

They may have the ability, but that was not advertised clearly. If you bought the PS3 for the OtherOS function, something Sony supposidly advertised (Did they? I actually haven't seen any commercial with that claim), and then take it away, I call that false advertising at the least.

Even so, Sony may have the rights on their software, but they do not own that piece of hardware anymore. You can do whatever you want with it, as long as it isn't illegal (breaking the TOS is not illegal). 

Now Sony assumes that hacking their software = enabling piracy. But that is a stupid claim, because the hacking only allows for others to do whatever they want with it, not only piracy.

The act of piracy is illegal. Hacking a piece of software so you potentially can put other software on it is not. The act of speeding is illegal. Modifying your car so that it potentially can go faster is not. 

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

That's the thing. The Other OS feature was never advertised. There was no marketing campaign, no commercials, no magazine inserts, no statement from Sony, and it wasn't even on the box. So the "advertised feature" argument holds no weight.

The only other argument they have is that Sony didn't have a right to take away features on a product that they (the customers) own. Even if we accept that people own their systems 100%, hardware, firmware, and software, that also would have to include that Sony doesn't have the right to add features, such as those described above. I didn't want trophies added to the games I play, so that means I have just as much of a right to file a lawsuit against Sony as the people complaining about removing Other OS.

Also, what about altering features? What if they didn't take out Other OS, instead replacing the ability to install Linux with the ability to install an Amiga or Mac OS? Would that make those people happy?

My question is, are people upset over the removal of Other OS? Or just the ability to install Linux?

"Power means nothing without honor and pride."

http://grifsgamereviews.blogspot.com My video game review site.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

"The act of piracy is illegal. Hacking a piece of software so you potentially can put other software on it is not."

Actually, if you circumvent copy protection to do so, it is.

The judge in the RealNetworks case hammered home just how ludicrous a double-standard this is when he noted that, while it's legal to make a backup copy of a DVD you own, it's illegal to make software that ALLOWS you to make that copy.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

It's simply a matter of greed and a lack of honor or ethics on the part of Sony.  They metaphorically spit in the face of their customers by pulling the garbage they did.  Maybe under an illogical legal system, what they did can't be called "bait and switch", but it DOES say a lot along the lines of "Ha ha!  We got you to buy our console, we have your money, now we can do whatever the frak we want, even taking back the capabilities which we sold our console on in the first place!  Frak you loyal consumer!  ::  Spit in your face, spit in your face, spit in your face. ::"

Now that people are realizing just how dishonorable, unethical, and corrupt Sony really is, they'll play a little diversion tactic by going after the "hackers" who just want consumers to have the functions for which they paid Sony for in the first place.  "OOOoooo... bad hackers!  Who do they think they are?  Robin Hood?  Giving back to the consumer what we stole from the consumer in the first place after we pretended to give it to the consumer in the first place?  It was ours to do with as we please, even if the consumer paid us for it.  So, BAD HACKERS!  Bad hackers!"

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000

Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

You're joking right?

Why is it "dishonorable" for Sony to eliminate the Other OS function? Why is it "dishonorable" to eliminate something that becomes a real liability to the company.

This Other OS argument has becomed idiotic at the very best. I had Linux on my PS3 just for giggles and do I miss it? NO I DON'T! I have three PCs, a Laptop and a Netbook in my house and I run Ubuntu on two of the PCs and my network so why do I freaking need it on my PS3 and why would I give a rats ass about a feature that nearly everyone never cared about??

This so called "project" is simply a cheap-ass excuse to commit an illegal actvity and simply get away with it. Ah gee let me post videos and write about how to make explosive devices. I am not doing anyone any harm I'm blowing junk up in my backyard please support my project even if it is an illegal act. I got raided by the fuzz so please back up all my research and use it as you please.

Jesus christ if you want Linux put it on a god damned PC and stop whinning! The only people I honestly think they get real possitive use of the Other OS freature has been state and goverment institutions due to cost. Aside from one or two individuals who will use this feature for it's intended purpose (I have seen several neat things on youtube using PS3s) there are more rotten eggs than good ones so the risks outweight the rewards.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

Install other OS isn't important to you, that's fine.  You have the right to feel that way.  But for others it might have been one of the major and some the only impetus to throw down their money on that overpriced console.  For these people it is nearly like Sony is tearing money right out of their pockets.

To illustrate:  A mechanic from a car dealership breaks into your car and removes the back seat.  Would you accept it if someone said "If you want more seats just buy a van"?

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

An even better analogy would be for a car company to have a major ad offering to all buyers of a particular brand of car a free inclusion and access to, let's say, OneStar.  OneStar, at the time, being a major selling point and reason why a number of individuals buy the car.  Sure, some buy it for other reasons, but a number do buy it for the OneStar addition.

Suddenly, and without reason, the OneStar feature is removed, no longer accessible.  Or, heck, they up and decide, despite the ad claiming it to be free, that it now requires a massive yearly subscription.

Yeah, maybe it can't be argued "bait and swicth" legally, but ethically?  Darn tootin'.

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000

Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

Just because 'Other OS' wasn't important to you does not mean that it wasn't to someone else. 'Other OS' wasn't just a tiny feature, for many it was the primary selling point for the system. 

"Jesus christ if you want Linux put it on a god damned PC and stop whinning!" The PS3 was at the time a very advanced piece of hardware (and still is in some ways) and was much cheaper than buying a high end PC with which to program. Take a look at the military. They bought dozens of PS3's to link up as a type of supercomputer using 'Other OS'. I think you underestimate the number of people who bought the PS3 not as a console but as their programming computer.

 

I hate broccoli/ and think it totally sucks/ Why isn't it meat?

I hate broccoli/ and think it totally sucks/ Why isn't it meat?

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

You don't really believe that these people are hacking the PS3 purely to regain the OtherOS "in the interests of regular consumers," do you?  These people were hacking it WITH OtherOS, which is why it was removed in the first place.  Now, they're trying to get it back so they can keep hacking it the easy way.

---

With the first link, the chain is forged.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

"These people were hacking it WITH OtherOS"

Of course they were.  That's rather the entire point of the GNU Project and the tools that run on top of the Linux kernel: to have full, unfettered access and control over your computer.

Hacking is, in and of itself, not illegal, and not synonymous with piracy.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

Yes, it is synonymous with piracy.  Hacking became popular because of piracy.  Hacking is used to pirate.

Also, hacking IS illegal in the United States if it's used to circumvent piracy protection.  Which, in the case of OtherOS, it is.

---

With the first link, the chain is forged.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

"Yes, it is synonymous with piracy.  Hacking became popular because of piracy.  Hacking is used to pirate."

These are the moments when I suspect you're just a troll, because I find it so hard to believe that anyone could honestly be as ignorant as you seem.

Tell you what, kiddo, here's some light reading; if you really ARE as clueless as you're acting, maybe it'll help you understand a couple of things about the history of computing, and if you're not, I at least get the satisfaction that I didn't waste my time explaining it to you myself.

Wikipedia article on hackers

History of the GNU Project

You can come back when you're done if you have any questions.  But I suspect you won't bother reading them, seeing as you already know everything.

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

See, now I feel silly for explaining it myself rather than posting links...

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

Hacking: To build quickly, often at the cost of stability, a desired feature. I.e.: He's hacking together a mod that will allow multiplayer.

Cracking: To breach, bring down defenses or bypass security, often with malicious purposes. I.e.: He's cracking their security system.

Phreaking: To disguise a signal or a stream of data as a native input to the system being connected. I.e.: He's phreaking the bank terminal to make it dump its money.

Piracy: To steal possessions by violent means. Used to refers to the act of attacking boats at sea.

Copyright Infringement: To ignore the control granted through law to an author on his concepts and ideas; to distribute such concepts and ideas without the creator's consent.

 

And knowing is half the battle...

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

I'm not sure what's more impressive; your abject ignorance of english vocabulary or of US law.  Literally every sentance in that post was wrong on one or both counts.

my vanity is justified

my vanity is justified

Re: Sony Targets 'OtherOS' Hacker with Second Raid

Shame about the folks who were using Other OS for legitimate and legal purposes though.

 

Andrew Eisen

 
Forgot your password?
Username :
Password :

Shout box

You're not permitted to post shouts.
MaskedPixelantehttp://www.joystiq.com/2014/07/28/gaymerx-in-dire-straits-after-nis-america-allegedly-backs-out-of/ NISA backs out of GaymerX support, but it seems like the only people crying foul are GaymerX.07/29/2014 - 6:30am
Papa MidnightIt's not bad so far, but I am honestly not sure what to make of it (or where it's going for that matter)07/28/2014 - 9:44pm
Matthew Wilsonis it any good?07/28/2014 - 9:36pm
Papa Midnight"Love Child" on HBO -- anyone else watching this?07/28/2014 - 9:27pm
MaskedPixelanteNah, I'm fine purple monkey dishwasher.07/28/2014 - 4:05pm
Sleaker@MP - I hope you didn't suffer a loss of your mental faculties attempting that.07/28/2014 - 3:48pm
MaskedPixelanteOK, so my brief research looking at GameFAQs forums (protip, don't do that if you wish to keep your sanity intact.), the 3DS doesn't have the power to run anything more powerful than the NES/GBC/GG AND run the 3DS system in the background.07/28/2014 - 11:01am
ZenMatthew, the 3DS already has GBA games in the form of the ambassador tittles. And I an just as curious about them not releasing them on there like they did the NES ones. I do like them on the Wii U as well, but seems weird. And where are the N64 games?07/28/2014 - 10:40am
james_fudgeNo. They already cut the price. Unless they release a new version that has a higher price point.07/28/2014 - 10:19am
E. Zachary KnightMatthew, It most likely is. The question is whether Nintendo wants to do it.07/28/2014 - 10:12am
Matthew WilsonI am sure the 3ds im more then powerful enough to emulate a GBA game.07/28/2014 - 9:54am
Sleaker@IanC - while the processor is effectively the same or very similar, the issue is how they setup the peripheral hardware. It would probably require creating some kind of emulation for the 3DS to handle interfacing with the audio and input methods for GBA07/28/2014 - 9:30am
Sleaker@EZK - hmmm, that makes sense. I could have sworn I had played GB/GBC games on it too though (emud of course)07/28/2014 - 9:23am
E. Zachary KnightSleaker, the DS has a built in GBA chipset in the system. That is why it played GBA games. The GBA had a seperate chipset for GB and GBColor games. The DS did not have that GB/GBC chipset and that is why the DS could not play GB and GBC games.07/28/2014 - 7:25am
IanCI dont think Nintendo ever gave reason why GBA games a reason why GBA games aren't on the 3DS eshop. The 3DS uses chips that are backwards compatable with the GBA ob GBA processor, after all.07/28/2014 - 6:46am
Sleakerhmmm that's odd I could play GBA games natively in my original DS.07/28/2014 - 1:39am
Matthew Wilsonbasically "we do not want to put these games on a system more then 10 people own" just joking07/27/2014 - 8:13pm
MaskedPixelanteSomething, something, the 3DS can't properly emulate GBA games and it was a massive struggle to get the ambassador games running properly.07/27/2014 - 8:06pm
Andrew EisenIdeally, you'd be able to play such games on either platform but until that time, I think Nintendo's using the exclusivity in an attempt to further drive Wii U sales.07/27/2014 - 7:21pm
Matthew WilsonI am kind of surprised games like battle network are not out on the 3ds.07/27/2014 - 7:01pm
 

Be Heard - Contact Your Politician