Street Fighter x Tekken, Tekken Developers Talk On-Disc DLC

April 18, 2012 -

Two different developers, two different takes on the practice of including DLC on retail game discs for future sales. The first is Tomoaki Ayano, the producer for Street Fighter x Tekken, who tells GameSpot that he was pretty disappointed in the individuals who hacked the retail game to unlock the 12 DLC characters on the disc.

"Personally, I was really surprised when I heard the news that the characters had been hacked, basically," producer, Tomoaki Ayano, told GameSpot. "So I was pretty disappointed by that. I was really surprised at how skillful the hackers were, basically. But I was really kind of disappointed that it created this kind of environment where a bunch of players were playing the characters but a bunch were unable to play with them."

Luckily, not every developer thinks like Ayano does. Tekken producer Katsuhiro Harada sort of side-steps the whole idea of on-disc DLC to say that Tekken characters are just too important to be sold as downloadable content. Here is what he told Edge:

"Tekken has never had DLC before and charged for it," series producer, Katushiro Harada, told Edge. "This isn't really directed at Capcom, I have always said this, but I see the characters and their move sets as chess pieces - they are essential items necessary in the game and we would never sell any of those individually."

Harada, being the gentleman that he is, offered some cover for Capcom's decision to offer characters as on-disk DLC.

"I expect the reason they did that was, if one player bought a character that another player didn't have, they would not be able to play against each other online," he said. "Each player needs to have the character data on their disc - if one doesn't, they would need to download it before each match - and as that includes the character model, the data would be large, increasing the download time."

Thanks to The Escapist for this story and this other story - both sent in by Andrew Eisen.


Comments

Re: Street Fighter x Tekken, Tekken Developers Talk On-Disc DLC

I wish everyone else's off topic anti right winger comments where editted and deleted. I remember when you first came on AE first thing you did was edit my comments.

This is my last post here enjoy your leftist only talk/circle jerk

Re: Street Fighter x Tekken, Tekken Developers Talk On-Disc DLC

"I wish everyone else's off topic anti right winger comments where editted and deleted."

They are.  Right wing or left wing, if it's violating the comments policy, I edit or remove it as necessary.

"I remember when you first came on AE first thing you did was edit my comments."

Well, yeah.  You continually post off-topic and frequently make baseless, insulting accusations about GamePolitics.  What the hell did you expect?

Oh, and I've been here almost 7 years.  Your account was created three and a half years ago.

"This is my last post here enjoy your leftist only talk/circle jerk"

Bye!

"Close my account, thanks"

That's not how it works.  If you don't want to post here, don't post here.  If you change your mind, feel free to come on back.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Street Fighter x Tekken, Tekken Developers Talk On-Disc DLC

Heh, giving how surprised Namco seems to be, personally I would have been going after Capcom's asses.

Re: Street Fighter x Tekken, Tekken Developers Talk On-Disc DLC

I wish Mass Effect 3 had this many articles written about on the disc content.

[Deleted]

AE: Stick to the topic.  BioWare and options for same-sex relations in its games are not the issue here.

I completely disagree with On the Disc Content being locked and released on DLC the developers of these games trying to make an extra buck just bring more people into piracy.
This is almost very similar to what was going on in the PC Market 2000-2010 to where you had huge issues with gaming companies taking advantage of the consumer.

• Online only gaming for a single player game
• Developers working with Hardware Companies to force you to buy their graphics card even if you had a superior card from another brand.

1. Empire Earth II did this so if you play this game today with a superior card it won’t work as well. Gamers actually found codes to hack the game and add their graphics cards to the ‘approved’ list.


• Microsoft forcing many companies to develop exclusively for Games for Windows Live which destroyed the quality of games. Let’s not forget difference between Apple and Microsoft is Apple does what it wants but produces superior products though expensive. Microsoft produces cheap products that are low priced but easily modded which IT/Help Desk techs love but now Microsoft wants to become Apple though not improve the quality of its products.

@AE I am referring to all gaming blogs, news sites not just GamePolitics

Re: Street Fighter x Tekken, Tekken Developers Talk On-Disc DLC

Why are you obsessed with LGBT? It does not even relate to this issue...

Re: Street Fighter x Tekken, Tekken Developers Talk On-Disc DLC

I don't buy the idea that they have to include the characters on the disk in order to play multiplayer matches. They can download and buffer the characters on demand. The data associated would not be detrimental. Sure you may have some impatient people who don't want to wait for their opponent to buffer the character, but there will be plenty more who will or who don't need to.

Re: Street Fighter x Tekken, Tekken Developers Talk On-Disc DLC

That sounds terribly impractical and costly, to be honest. Especially when they can just put it on the disc lol

Re: Street Fighter x Tekken, Tekken Developers Talk On-Disc DLC

How do you figure? Meshes, the various skins, voices, animation files, blurb (possibly in all languages)... That is not a light download. Some people have low latency but low bandwidth as well...

Re: Street Fighter x Tekken, Tekken Developers Talk On-Disc DLC

While I appreciate Harada's viewpoint of the characters as "chess pieces" (very good illustration of his point btw), I personally like the idea of periodically releasing new characters in order to keep the game fresh. That's one of the things I think Capcom was trying to do with SFxT, which of course makes it disappointing to the devs when people access them early.

This of course does not address the on-disc DLC controversy, but in regards to that I think Capcom could have garnered a lot of support by using a system of timed unlocks that does not involve charging players additional money for something that does not cost Capcom additional money to provide.

Re: Street Fighter x Tekken, Tekken Developers Talk On-Disc DLC

Sorry but its the devs fault for trying to continue this bad business model, also at this point and time Capcom has said half of its game can not make money so it should close and go away.


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Street Fighter x Tekken, Tekken Developers Talk On-Disc DLC

So, both developers are doing their hardest to completely, and totally, miss the point. Got it.

---You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.

Re: Street Fighter x Tekken, Tekken Developers Talk On-Disc DLC

No, Harada sort of gets it.  He didn't call Capcom out for it because he's using their IP and TxSF isn't yet.  I dunno about you, but I wouldn't want to be the reason my employer lost out on a big contract.

Re: Street Fighter x Tekken, Tekken Developers Talk On-Disc DLC

"But I was really kind of disappointed that it created this kind of environment where a bunch of players were playing the characters but a bunch were unable to play with them."

Hacking wasn't what created that environment.  Charging people $20 to gain access to content on a disc that they already spent $60 on created this environment.  How can anyone who pays attention to the gaming be surprised by people's reactions to this.  Of course the game was going to get hacked.

Re: Street Fighter x Tekken, Tekken Developers Talk On-Disc DLC

How do you figure?  The fact that some people (hackers) have access to the characters and some people (non-hackers) do not is directly attributable to the fact that the hackers hacked it.  Had they not hacked it, then nobody would have had the characters until they were released and everybody could have them.  So yes, the hackers created the environment where some people have characters that others are unable to have.

I think the people butthurt about on-disc DLC are instinctively lashing out at Capcom, contradicting anything they say without any regard to the actual merits of it.

Re: Street Fighter x Tekken, Tekken Developers Talk On-Disc DLC

Had the content not been there at all, the "hackers" would have had nothing to hack. That is what is being discussed. Putting these characters on the disk in order to monetize them later is a slap in the face to the customer.

Re: Street Fighter x Tekken, Tekken Developers Talk On-Disc DLC

Oh, I see.  Hackers are not responsible for their own actions, but are instead entirely at the mercy of outside forces.  Good to know.  :P

But seriously though, I think you need to carefully read the quote that Falcon decided to pick on, and look at what is actually being said.  Here it is again, for reference: "But I was really kind of disappointed that it created this kind of environment where a bunch of players were playing the characters but a bunch were unable to play with them."

He is talking about how shitty it is that, through hacking,  a few people are playing characters that most other players can't access yet.  Now, regardless of your feelings about on-disc DLC in general, and the hackers' justification for hacking, blah blah blah, the fact is that it is 100%, completely, and totally the hackers' fault that this disparity exists.  There would be no disparity if they had not hacked access to the characters.  And the disparity is what this guy was talking about.

By the way, do you always blame victims for being too victimizable?  "If you didn't have such a nice TV, nobody would have stolen it.",  "If you weren't dressed so sluttily, you wouldn't have been assaulted.", etc?  Or this an exception?  "Had the content not been there at all, the "hackers" would have had nothing to hack."

Re: Street Fighter x Tekken, Tekken Developers Talk On-Disc DLC

"...the fact is that it is 100%, completely, and totally the hackers' fault that this disparity exists.  There would be no disparity if they had not hacked access to the characters."

On the flip side, there would be no disparity if those 12 characters were not locked on the disk.  That would be 100%, completely, and totally Capcom's fault.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Street Fighter x Tekken, Tekken Developers Talk On-Disc DLC

Nope.  Prior to the hacking, the 12 characters were on the disc, and yet there was no disparity, because nobody had them yet.  Again, it comes down to essentially blaming the victim.  After all, your car never would have been stolen if you didn't have a car in the first place, right?  While that's technically true, it is mislaying responsibility for the act.  The car thief is to blame for the car being stolen, not the car owner.  Even if you are super mad at the car owner right now because you think they drive like an asshole.

I know virtually everybody on this site thinks that they are victims, and Capcom is the perpetrator, of the offense of trying to monetize extra content for the game.  But even if you think that is somehow wrong, and that Capcom is somehow guilty of something by doing it, you shouldn't let that skew your view of them into assuming they are to blame for everything in all situations.  It is the hackers' fault that some people have the characters while most do not.

Re: Street Fighter x Tekken, Tekken Developers Talk On-Disc DLC

"It is the hackers' fault that some people have the characters while most do not."

No, it's Capcom's fault for engineering a situation where hackers are the only ones who can access those 12 characters.  Capcom had three choices:

  1. Unlock the characters - everyone has access to them; no disparity.
  2. Don't include the characters - no one has access to them*; no disparity
  3. Lock the characters - only hackers can access them**; disparity

Capcom chose door number 3.  It has no one to blame but itself.

 

Andrew Eisen

*until they're sold as DLC later this year

**until the keys to unlock them are sold later this year

Re: Street Fighter x Tekken, Tekken Developers Talk On-Disc DLC

No moreso than a car owner engineers a situation where their car gets stolen.  But in that case, I'm sure you'd agree that the car thief is responsible for his actions in stealing the car.  You wouldn't place all the blame on the car owner simply for having the car, and thus giving the thief the opportunity to steal it.

Capcom engineered a situation where nobody would have access to the characters until they went on sale later.  The hackers reengineered the situation so that nowa few have access and most still don't.  It's the hackers' actions that led to that disparity.

Re: Street Fighter x Tekken, Tekken Developers Talk On-Disc DLC

"You wouldn't place all the blame on the car owner simply for having the car, and thus giving the thief the opportunity to steal it."

Of course not, but that analogy doesn't work because - well, it doesn't work for a lot of reasons but mostly it doesn't work because unlike a car thief, the hackers haven't done anything wrong morally, ethically or legally.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Street Fighter x Tekken, Tekken Developers Talk On-Disc DLC

And Capcom has?  They advertise a game with a certain number of characters for a certain price, and provide that game as advertised.  They also have plans to sell extra characters later, and have made provisions for that on the disc.  That's morally, ethically, or legally wrong somehow?  Why?  And how is it more wrong than a company doing the exact same thing (including having the characters ready to go at launch), but distributing them via download instead?  I just do not understand the outrage.  The only difference here is that you know with a certainty that the content was ready to go when the game was launched, but so what?  If their business plan is to include some characters up front and sell extra characters later, then that's their right.  They don't owe the customer every single asset they have for the game right at launch.  If they provide what they said would be in the game at launch, then that's the end of their obligation as far as I'm concerned.

And my analogy wasn't meant to be about moral, ethical, or legal guilt necessarily, but about responsibility.  I believe the responsibility lies with the people who actually committed the act, not with the people who were simply in a situation where they were acted against.

Re: Street Fighter x Tekken, Tekken Developers Talk On-Disc DLC

"And Capcom has?"

Has what?  Done something immoral, unethical or illegal by locking characters on the disk?

Nope.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Street Fighter x Tekken, Tekken Developers Talk On-Disc DLC

Gotta love how they blame 'hackers', instead of themselves.

 
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