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Is Britain Readying a Supremely Armed Pirate Hunter?

November 20, 2009

An story on BoingBoing cites a British Labour Government source that such a move may be underway.

The article, noticed by GPer DarkSaber, reports that changes could be introduced to the Digital Economy Bill, which would enable the Secretary of State to introduce legislation without debate in order to amend the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act and to introduce a Pirate-Finder General.

Current Secretary of State Peter Mandelson's is behind the proposal, which would feature the following measures:

1. The Secretary of State would get the power to create new remedies for online infringements.

2. The Secretary of State would get the power to create procedures to "confer rights" for the purposes of protecting rightsholders from online infringement.

3. The Secretary of State would get the power to "impose such duties, powers or functions on any person as may be specified in connection with facilitating online infringement."

The Electronic Freedom Foundation (EFF) was equally alarmed at the news and has introduced a form of action that urges UK citizens to call their MP.

The EFF labels the ability to to introduce legislation without debate “dangerous,” adding “This bill would grant the Secretary of State sweeping powers to mess with the very fundamentals of the UK copyright system law, ignoring the voices of UK citizens to meet the needs of one set of interest holders.”

The EFF further notes that Mandelson may also target “Cyberlocker” services like Amazon’s S3, Dropbox and YouSendIt, which allow users to swap and share large files.

NYC: Net Neutrality Hearings Today

November 20, 2009

The New York City Council Committee on Technology in Government is holding public hearings today on the subject of Net Neutrality.

A live stream of the hearings is available on LiveStream. The Council is live Tweeting coverage as well here. Also look for hashtags #netneutrality or #reso712A.

Entertainment Consumer Association (ECA) Vice President and General Counsel Jennifer Mercurio gave testimony earlier today in support of Net Neutrality.

A sample of her testimony:

ECA is strongly in support the proposals you’ve outlined in Resolution 712A-2007 and of the concept of Network Neutrality, the principle that protects one’s choice of content and equal opportunity on the Internet. Like President Obama, who has pledged to make Network Neutrality the law of the land, we believe that Network Neutrality is a key right for consumers, insuring continued enjoyment and use of the Internet for a variety of applications including recreation, creativity and economic expansion.  This is especially true for video game players (gamers), because our hobby is increasingly tied to the Internet.  Of the 117 million active gamers in the US, 56 percent play games online, accounting for over 65 million Americans.


Disclosure: The ECA is the parent company of GamePolitics

Fighting Fair: International Humanitarian Law As Applied to Games

November 20, 2009

Proving that there really is a study for everything, an interesting new analysis applies International Humanitarian Law (IHL) to a variety of war-themed videogames to see how they stack up.

Playing by the Rules was undertaken by a pair of Swiss organizations, Pro Juventute, a children’s rights group, and Track Impunity Always (TRIAL), an association with a focus on international criminal justice.

The aim of the study was to “raise public awareness among developers and publishers of the games, as well as among authorities, educators and the media about virtually committed crimes in computer and videogames.”

Titles were played by gamers under that watchful eye of representatives from both organizations, along with three lawyers that specialized in IHL. Games tested included Army of Two, Battlefield Bad Company, Call of Duty 4 & 5, Far Cry 2, Metal Gear Solid 4 (referred to as Metal Gear Soldier in the report) and Tom Clancy’s Rainbow 6 Vegas.

For each title the study offers general information as a lead-in, then offers up context of the conflict in question and lists violations encountered along with legal analysis.

From FarCry 2’s Violations Encountered and Legal Analysis section:

The scenes portray extensive shooting in civilian areas and the shooting of civilian objects, including shooting at a church. All these acts go unpunished in the game. Even if we assume the attacks are not directed against these objects, the excessive destruction of civilian objects amounts to a violation of the principle of proportionality.

 

IHL allows for some collateral damage to civilians and civilian objects in carrying out hostilities, however, any expected damage must be proportional to the direct and concrete military advantage anticipated.

Overall the study stated, “The result is as deflating as reality. The organisation calls upon game producers to consequently and creatively incorporate rules of international humanitarian law and human rights into their games.”

Among the recommendations offered were:

It would be very useful if developers would incorporate more specific rules on how to conduct an operation in their games, in terms of the weapons allowed, the behaviour allowed, the military targets sought, the degree of collateral damage permitted, etc. The message of the scenes should never be that everything is allowed, or that it is up to the player to decide what is right and what is wrong. In real life, this is not the way it works.


The full study can be viewed here (PDF).


Thanks Bart! (Soldat_Louis)

NIMF to Close at Year End

November 20, 2009

Founded in 1996, The National Institute on Media and the Family (NIMF) will close its doors at the end of the 2009 calendar year.

In a statement, the group said “that more work remains to be done,” and that NIMF’s board is in discussions with other non-profits organizations to see if its programs and research can be carried on.

NIMF’s most prominent work was its annual Video Game Report Card, which graded the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB), game publishers, retailers and parents annually on the enforcement and education of videogame ratings. While the rated groups were knocked early and often by NIMF, the 13th annual Report Card gave grades that would have made any parent proud, except for the “Incomplete” for the Parental Involvement category.

Game groups eventually even cozied up to NIMF, culminating in a grant of $50,000 bestowed upon NIMF in 2008 by The Entertainment Software Association (ESA).

President and founder Dr. David Walsh (picutred), who indicated that he is not ready for retirement, and will continue to speak and write on parenting topics, had this to say:

The current challenging economic environment accelerated those discussions making this the right time to begin transitioning the programs to other organizations who share our mission and values. I look forward to transitioning the Institute’s programs to worthy organizations that I am confident will continue to educate parents and caregivers on our rapidly changing digital culture.

NIMF credits its annual Report Card with the adoption of a ratings system, additional scrutiny over age appropriate game purchases at retail and parental controls being incorporated into console systems.

In a blog post, Dr. Walsh added:

We’ve accomplished a lot of amazing things in the last thirteen years.  And in that same amount of time there has been unprecedented technological innovation and an ever-increasing number of screens in young people’s lives, making the Institute’s mission just as relevant today as when we started.  So while this chapter of the Institute’s work is coming to a close, I am excited to transition the Institute’s programs to organizations that will continue to foster the same important conversations and bring relevant solutions to parents.

Update: Via an article on the WCCO CBS affiliate website, comes definitive word that a lack of funding was the culprit behind NIMF’s closure. NIMF was funded by Fairview Health Services with an annual commitment of some $750,000, a figure that Fairview could no longer justify in the current economic climate.

The President of Fairview’s North Region stated, “It was back in the summer of this year that we really said, 'We can't continue. Fairview can't continue.’”

Aussie R18+ Rally Planned

November 20, 2009

Brisbane, Australia is the site of a planned rally which hopes to show government authorities just how serious gamers Down Under are about receiving an R18+ videogame rating category.

The rally is planned for December 5th at 11:00 AM in King George Square. Treat Us Like Adults, a website/organization founded by game developer Ethan Watson, is behind the movement. Watson has a personal stake in the lack of an R18+ rating as he wants to “make games that, due to thematic content, would likely be refused classification in his home country.”

Watson also plans to give a speech at the event.

Given that a previously planned, and subsequently postponed, demonstration scheduled for Australia earlier this year was going to feature protestors dressed in cosplay, Watson felt the need to note, “Just keep in mind that if you want this rally to be taken seriously by the public at large, you should probably leave your zombie gear for the Zombie Walk or Supanova.”


Thanks Ryan!

Law Firm Sniffing Around Xbox Live Class Action Suit

November 19, 2009

A law firm that specializes in consumer class action lawsuits is probing the recent purging of Xbox Live accounts in what may be a setup for future litigation.

Inc Gamers noticed that AbingtonIP currently has a form on its website asking those affected by the ban—and who were not refunded a prorated sum for their time remaining on Xbox Live—to send in pertinent information. The law firm writes, “Microsoft has chosen to use one of the most indiscriminate 'weapons' in its arsenal in an effort to combat piracy -- as a result, use of this 'weapon' has resulted in a great deal of collateral damage -- many people were affected who had nothing to do with piracy.”

AbingtonIP calls the timing of the widespread ban “convenient,” in light of the pending, post-ban release of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 and thinks the ban may have resulted in a boost to Xbox Live subscription revenues. If the ban had been enacted before the release of MW2 and Halo 3: ODST, the law firm supposes that sales of both games would likely have been “greatly diminished.”

Banned Resistance Gamer Targets MS and NOA in Latest Suits

November 19, 2009

Erik Estavillo, the Resistance: Fall of Man gamer who sued Sony Computer Entertainment America (SCEA) over being banned from the PlayStation Network has targeted the remaining two major console makers in a new lawsuit.

Microsoft Corporation and Nintendo of America are defendants in a federal complaint, which was filed November 18 in the U.S. District Court, Northern District of California.

Microsoft is being sued for a “red ring of death” affecting the plaintiff’s Xbox 360 console. Estavillo notes that as he is disabled, he cannot afford to pay the “well over $100” fee to fix the console, nor can he afford to purchase a new one. He feels “that Microsoft should have to bear the burden that is now put on the shoulders of this disabled plaintiff.”

Estavillo is seeking $75,000 from Microsoft, due to the “undue stress” he has undergone since the 360 broke and the “sadness he will have in the mean time of finding one he can afford.”

The same complaint targets Nintendo over a Wii system update. Estavillo claims that update 4.3 disabled his Homebrew Channel, which he used to unlock characters in Mario Kart Wii. Plaintiff states that the only way to unlock characters in Mario Kart Wii is to purchase Super Mario Galaxy, which will unlock a single character in the former title. “In essence, Nintendo is forcing customers to buy another game to unlock one character in a different game.”

Damages to the tune of $5,000 are sought from Nintendo, for interfering in plaintiff’s “pursuit of happiness.” An injunction is also being sought to prohibit Nintendo from “deleting, blocking or prohibiting the Homebrew Channel and Ocarina applications.”

Estavillo says he suffers from depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder, panic disorder, agoraphobia and Crohn’s disease, all of which lead to his leaning on videogames “heavily” for happiness.

Estavillo plans to file a lawsuit in state court as well, which he wrote will “pretty much” be identical to the federal suit.


|Image from Flickr|

Canadian Study Finds Games Useful Educational Tools

November 19, 2009

A new Canadian study has tried to take an objective look at video games as learning tools, particularly since the medium is so popular among children and teens.

Under the headline "The Video Game Debate: Bad for Behaviour, Good for Learning?", the Canadian Council of Learning article cites several sources for its analysis, going back as far as 1991. It begins by acknowledging the popualrity of video games (citing U.S. numbers) as well as looking at whether video games can be helpful or harmful.

While some studies seem to go in with predetermined conclusions, this one seems to sit on the fence in its early analysis:

Frequent and unrestricted use of recreational video games may compromise academic performance. Several studies have shown that students of all ages who spend more time playing video games have lower grades than their peers who devote less time to video gaming. This type of correlation should be interpreted cautiously: while research implies that playing video games causes students to perform poorly in school—it could also be the case that students who do poorly in school are more inclined to play video games. Interpretive issues aside, devoting long hours to recreational video game playing clearly does not contribute to academic achievement. (Ed.: emphasis added)

While the study acknowledges the potential tie to violence and aggression, the opposite was also studied, citing video game advocate James Paul Gee's argument that video game players become engaged in powerful forms of learning because:

  • They engage players in a problem-solving cycle similar to that in experimental science, based on hypothesis, experimentation, deduction and renewed experimentation.
  • Players can customize games to suit their learning styles, encouraging creativity (e.g., designing new skate parks in Tony Hawk skateboard games).
  • Players are able to view the world through multiple identities.
  • Players are encouraged to take risks and try new things.

The study goes on to examine various types of video games and discuss their possible usefulness as educational tools. In the end, the article concludes:

The tremendous popularity of video games means they have enormous potential as learning tools that capture students’ attention and fire their imaginations. Harnessing that potential requires careful attention to design features and appropriate training for teachers. The understanding of links between video games and learning is still very much at a nascent stage both with regards to game design and effective delivery. As video games in education are gaining attention, it becomes more and more critical to understand why and how games can affect students.

The study comes at a time when Canadian Heritage has funded $375,000 for the creation of a video game and web site to teach "First Nation" youth about their heritage. Tracy Lavin, principle researcher for the CCL article, said:

"It is important to utilize all the resources at our disposal to enhance student learning in any setting. It makes sense to draw on students' fascination with video games in order to expand their learning opportunities and improve their learning outcomes."

The Canadian Heritage game is in open beta and is being developed by BlackCherry Digital Media.

EFF Dissects ACTA

November 19, 2009

A pair of Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) Directors penned an article which delves into some of the issues surrounding the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement (ACTA) negotiations.

The Impact of the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement on the Knowledge Economy (PDF) was published in the Yale Journal of International Law. Authors Eddan Katz, EFF International Affairs Director, and Gwen Hinze, EFF International Policy Director, call the secret ACTA negotiations a threat “to undermine the balance of IP at the foundation of sustainable innovation and creativity.”

The EFF is concerned as well with the “unprecedented” secrecy around ACTA negotiations. The organization attempted to gain information using freedom of information laws, but only received 159 pages of information, while 1,362 were withheld due to national security concerns.

The U.S. is negotiating ACTA as a sole executive agreement, meaning that agreements “are concluded on the basis of the President’s independent constitutional authority alone.” The authors note that such agreements are not subjected to congressional vote, thus removing “the inter-branch accountability mechanisms essential to balanced policymaking.”

Circumventing the involvement of organizations such as World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) and the World Trade Organization (WTO), who typically account for “a range of interests” also removes “checks and balances” from ACTA negotiations.

Why should you and I be concerned about ACTA? The EFF has three responses for that question:

…though it was originally portrayed as an agreement to coordinate best practices on border enforcement of physical goods, ACTA will extend to regulation of global Internet traffic.

...implementation of ACTA may require amending U.S. law and upsetting developments in controversial areas of public policy.

…using trade agreements to set global norms for intellectual property enforcement risks distorting national information regulation.

The EFF authors offer the following proposals as ways to improve the transparency and accountability of ACTA:

• Reform trade advisory committees for more diverse representation;
• Strengthen congressional oversight and negotiating objectives;
• Institutionalize transparency guidelines for trade negotiations;
• Implement the State Department’s solicitation of public comments under the Circular 175 procedure


ACTA negotiations are scheduled to resume in January.

Kotick Sells More Shares, Nets Another $17 Million

November 19, 2009

Activision CEO Bobby Kotick has sold another chunk of his stock options, benefiting from the stock rise after the enormous sales of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 after one week.

Kotick, who netted about $20 million from selling options last week, sold another 1.68 million shares at around $11.61 to $11.72 a share. This was from the same pool of options that vested in 2000 for $1.035 a share. The resulting profit was around $17 million, according to a Gamasutra story.

In August, Kotick brought in another $25 million when he sold about 2 million shares.

GP: There was no indication whether Kotick blew his nose, or had a gold-encrusted bowel movement, but we'll keep watching just for loyal reader Darksaber.

Anti-Violence Flash Game Lets Users Beat Woman

November 19, 2009

File under bad ideas: one component of a Danish anti-violence campaign features an online game that allows players to virtually beat up a woman.

Hit The Bitch” is the work of The NGO for Children Exposed to Violence at Home and lets players smack around a girl in a bid to elevate scores from the level of “pussy” to “gangsta.”  Users who possess a webcam also have the ability to go interactive, as physical swings and slaps will be translated to on screen violence against the girl.

The site is currently only offered to Danish Internet users due to a high amount of traffic to the site, though the game’s makers note that “domestic violence is a global problem, so please support the fight against it in your local country.”

By all accounts, the game ends with the girl on the ground bleeding and crying. One user reported that the game calls the player an idiot for participating.


|Via Adverblog|

Police: Yes Kid, Parents Can Take Your Xbox

November 19, 2009

A Buffalo Grove, Illinois boy called 911 after his parents took away his Xbox console as punishment.

The boy hung up, reports The Chicago Tribune, but as a matter of routine, an officer was dispatched to the home just in case. The boy apparently admitted to making the call and asked a cop whether his parents were within their rights taking away his game system. A police officer assured him that they were.

A Police Commander told the paper that he did not know why the boy was being punished. Police further advised the boy to listen to his parents.

A2M CEO: Publishers Mislead ESRB in Hunt for Lower Ratings

November 18, 2009

Speaking at the recent Montreal International Game Summit, the CEO of a game development company complained that publishers are deliberately deceiving the Entertainment Software Ratings Board (ESRB) in a bid to receive lower age ratings.

Rémi Racine of Artificial Mind & Movement (A2M), creator of Wet and the upcoming PSP version of Dante’s Inferno, said that publishers who attempt to trick the ESRB are looking for a wider audience—and subsequent profits— for their game.

Edge Online offered the following quote from Racine:

As a developer who has worked with a lot of different publishers, we’re aware of many that have tried to cheat the rating. They say to the ERSB that it’s a Teen rating [13+] rather than an Mature [17+] to try and sell more; you can do this just by sending them a video that doesn’t show the most violent stuff and then you’ll get the rating that you want rather than the rating you should get.

The ESRB’s Eliot Mizrachi addressed Racine’s claims, saying:

We regularly check games post-release to verify that submissions were complete, and it’s very likely that if a game contains undisclosed content that would have affected the rating assigned, we’ll find out about it. In such cases ESRB can actually impose fines up to $1 million as well as require corrective actions like re-labeling or even recalling product, both of which can obviously be very costly.

Racine’s comments came from a panel which discussed the social responsibility owed to consumers by those who make up the game industry. Racine was also blunt in his assessment of the game industry’s effectiveness at educating consumers:

Right now I don’t think the industry is doing enough to educate the audience. The ERSB is supposed to do it, but it feels like we just kind of expect these kind of industry or government bodies to do the job for us. As much as I don’t think it’s the place of EA or Activision to go off and try and inform parents on their own, a more active role needs to be taken by all participants to ensure our artists are free to express themselves and that content can be enjoyed responsibly.

School Shooting Averted, Story Plays Up Link to Games

November 18, 2009

Authorities in Beauvais, France believe they have prevented a possible school shooting by a 13-year old “computer games enthusiast."

A TimesOnline story details the unfolding events under the unfortunate headline “Computer Games Fan ‘Planned School Massacre.’” Suspicion was initially raised when the boy, named Bastien, left extra early for school, eventually leading his parents to a blog post of his that read: “This is my last message because Tuesday November 17, 2009 will be the last day of my life. Sorry to leave you..."  Police were alerted and sealed off the boy’s school, Saint-Esprit. The teen apparently saw police at the school and avoided it, ditched a shotgun and 25 cartridges in a field along the way. He was found later at a cyber-café.

A friend of Bastien said that, “He always wanted to go into the Army. He loved battles. He was passionate about history, warriors. He played video games up to one or two in the morning...” Other buddies told reporters that Bastien was a World of Warcraft player.

Even the Mayor of Allone, Christian Sadowski, painted Bastien as a gamer, saying that he knew the boy was a fan of computer games, adding, “Many young people end up finding it difficult to tell the difference between dream and reality. He played his little fantasy on the net and then carried it out.”

The boy was anxious about an upcoming parent-teacher conference as a result of receiving less-than-stellar grades.

GP: Glad they caught him obviously, but the secondary focus on games in this article is gratuitous as is usually the case.  But as we, and Lorne Lanning, know, this is how the mainstream media rolls. At least they didn’t call WOW a “murder simulator.”

Update: GP reader Soldat_Louis rounded up and translated a handful of other stories and media outlets that played up the videogame link:

• "Considered as a good student coming from a normal family, the middle school boy, a video game adept, (...)" (Le Point)

• "According to a police source, 'bad grades could be the cause of the murderous intentions' of the student, a video game adept."  (France-Soir)

• "It's on his blog that the student, a video game fan, has published his intention to make a name of himself (...)" (Le Télégramme)

• "The kid is considered as a good student. He comes from a normal family. He is a video game adept and maintains his own blog. (...) [The attempted shooting] revives the memory of [the Winnenden shooting]. Perpetrated by  Tim Kretschmer, 17-years-old, also a video game adept, (...)" (La Dépêche)


Soldat_Louis also pointed us towards (and again translated the relevant part) a debate over “How to protect your children against the dangers of the Internet” that took place on French radio station RTL this morning.

Véronique Fima of the Action Innocence nonprofit group apparently came to the defense of games and gamers in the debate, while noting that in the case of the Beauvais story, the Internet played a positive role and assisted in stopping any violence.

On the point of videogames, she stated, “First of all, I wouldn't want them to be incriminated in the first place (...) rather than knowing that he was a video game aficionado, I would like us to ask the question : what was the deep discomfort that made this child act that way (...) All children and teenagers all play video games, yet they're not all mass murderers."

Lanning On Why Violent Games Are Still a Talking Point

November 18, 2009

A recent screening of Spencer Halpin’s Moral Kombat documentary featured a post-show panel of game experts discussing some of the topics presented in the film.

The screening took place on November 11th in San Francisco. Members of the roundtable included Wired’s Chris Kohler, Dean Takahashi from Venure Beat, Lorne Lanning of Oddworld Inhabitants and Spencer Halpin.

Perhaps the most interesting response was that of Lanning’s in response to the question of why violence and videogames is still such a hot topic:

They (media groups) want the sensationalism. They will broadcast anytime there’s a shooting; they will find people that have a very specific, loud, sensational, fearful opinion of it, and they will give them prime airtime. If you add up those minutes of airtime it’s actually a fair amount of penetration into the public mind.

But then, we look at the court cases and the Supreme Court decisions and court decisions in nine states, at the time I looked into it. And all of them, throughout all of these cases… they were sham cases. Those court cases, and the results of that, never get any airtime, because that’s not selling news. So we wind up with a very distorted opinion from the public perspective, those that rely on the corporate media. The results of the court case maybe be on page 9, probably on page 19 and take up a tenth of a page.

Meanwhile, when the sensationalism happens… the critics, with false claims that they are never held to, get a lot of exposure and that exposure compounds. We see this in so many things… in the lead up to the war, in healthcare… When it was a hot topic, we could count on the coverage being in a certain direction and I think we can continue to count on that because the media behavior isn’t changing for the better, if anything it can pretty much be proven it’s changing for the worse.


The full post-film discussion is available on YouTube in four segments: part one, part two, part three and part four.

Disclosure: Filmmaker Spencer Halpin is the brother of Entertainment Consumers Association president Hal Halpin. The ECA is the parent company of GamePolitics.

GamePolitics ShoutBox

Posted 11/21/09 at 09:01pm
ZippyDSMlee: Mmmmmm box the panels in so you can see them from the side or below?
Posted 11/21/09 at 09:01pm
Flamespeak: and ways that aren't really hurting anything, then let them instead of forcing change on them.
Posted 11/21/09 at 09:00pm
ZippyDSMlee: Ya make it a optional program, you get the 10% and no recoup on engery gained from the panels :P
Posted 11/21/09 at 09:00pm
Flamespeak: I am not saying that using solar panels is a bad idea, but if a town's populace wanted to keep their old look
Posted 11/21/09 at 09:00pm
Flamespeak: might as well outlaw all muscle cars and make it so no parts could be made for them
Posted 11/21/09 at 09:00pm
ZippyDSMlee: Meh balance it out raise the rates by 10% t so they can put panels out.
Posted 11/21/09 at 08:59pm
Flamespeak: especially for a fake problem. I mean if we are to get rid of things because other things are more effecient, then legislation
Posted 11/21/09 at 08:58pm
Flamespeak: Forcing people to alter their homes in a way they don't want to or face jail time is indeed bad.
Posted 11/21/09 at 08:57pm
Flamespeak: Then you have buisness that were forced to alter their means of operation to help eliminate the excess CO2 production, this cost
Posted 11/21/09 at 08:57pm
ZippyDSMlee: Flamespeak:so forcing houses to have solar panels is bad? frankly the current energy mafia should start putting them on places that get more than 4 hours of light a day.... all those things putting engery into teh system would help some..
Posted 11/21/09 at 08:57pm
Flamespeak: decision because it would detract from the visual asthetic associated with the town, but they were required to anyway.
Posted 11/21/09 at 08:56pm
Flamespeak: contructed or modified to help reduce 'greenhouse emmisions'. I remember one being a historical town that raised protest to the
Posted 11/21/09 at 08:55pm
Flamespeak: The effects of this research has caused some towns to adopt a policy to mandate the use of solar panels if any houses are
Posted 11/21/09 at 08:54pm
Flamespeak: striving to find a way to destroy a problem that literally doesn't exist. Smog and such are pollutants that should be controlled
Posted 11/21/09 at 08:53pm
Flamespeak: Of course we shouldn't just dump sludge wherever we want to, but this bogus research was responsible for several countries
Posted 11/21/09 at 08:52pm
Flamespeak: Big difference between pollution and global warming caused by excess CO2, Zip.
Posted 11/21/09 at 08:49pm
ZippyDSMlee: Flamespeak:I dunno I do think we are not helping and should within reason I dunno...try and not....pollute and stuff.
Posted 11/21/09 at 08:44pm
Flamespeak: out of goverment backing for bogus research and fear mongering.
Posted 11/21/09 at 08:44pm
Flamespeak: It got vauge mention in the major newsources, which is pretty crappy considering this could mean millions of dollars swindled
Posted 11/21/09 at 08:43pm
Flamespeak: Alryic: I saw that and, as a supporter of the idea Global Warming from human interaction is hogwash, was quite please.
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