@ Nekojin

And that is the type of scenario the IGDA is trying to rectify. If you contributed a significant amout to the development of the game, you deserve to be on that credits list.

On the list of positions, testers are a part of the positions that should be credited. So if the developers had followed these guidelines when you were testing those games, you would have been on that list.

Another positive point to this, is that if a developer goes under and you are looking for a new job, you can list that developer and game as work experience without having to worry about verification. The IGDA wants to start a database for the credits for all future games that follow their formula so that easy verification can be achieved.

What annoys me is that 'celebrities' tend to get freedoms that other artists would get completely ignored over, be they game-writers, musicians or any other form of creation.

I find it frustrating because it vastly limits the options available to non-celebrities. Why do you think that Spore, for example, is looking to be one of the most original games in years? To put it bluntly, it's because if anyone other than Will Wright had suggested it, the publisher would not have wanted to know.

celebrities need to go....having famous hacks "halp" teams into the grave or look pretty while real people do all the work....

as for breaking down credits doesn't the film industry list the ones the studio likes the most first and everythign else is filler?

ijed
Digital distro dose not work for full sized games the time it takes to build 2-5 hours of content is almost half a game now and thats 1-2 years of work and that dosent even include engine build time in some cases.

In order for digi distro to work lower prices and a more simplified setup needs to be in place looking at D2D and steam it can take as much as 5-10 just to have a game put in the online store add 5-10 more for studio profit and thats 10-25$ for a 2-5 hour game, a better balance needs to be struck between what the consumer pays and what the digital service gets, without volume in sells no on will make a profit off it.


While normal publishers are fckign loan sharks digi distro is still cutting its teeth.

Also this would not fix the Manhunt 2 issue of no credits, unless such things were worked out in a contract the main studio of a game dose not have to give credits to others that helped them, because of the nature of the game even studios would resort to publisher like tactics in order to save time, money or rep.

Altho pubs have all the power and say 8 times out of 10, all studios can do is survive off the greed of publishers as long as they can and in part thats part of the game, hollywood is no different its more polished but not be much.

There should be a standardised system for making sure that all people involved in the production of a game are properly credited. I have worked on localization for several titles and have ended up with no credit, or at best, being put in the manual.

It's true that all companies do it differently. In my case, it may occcur that our localization team are left til the last minute for addition, and then told that the developer doesn't want to make any more changes to avoid problems, sorry! Other times, the developer might mail us early in the project and ask for a list of names to put in from the get go.

However, there are some instances in which I was glad to have been left out of the credits...Leisure Suit Larry: Magna Cum Laude...*shiver*

I worked on a game a year or so ago which involved 6 months of late nights and worked weekends. When the game came out, there wasnt even a credit section in the manual. The only people who got to see the credits, were those who finished the game. Thats very frustrating.

I'm a big fan of the monkeyball idea of game credits - turn it into a mini-game! People will actually view through them, enjoy it and the full list of names extends the lifespan of said mini-game.

I think this is an example of how the various aspects of the industry need to unionize. I know that's a scary word for some people, but it's eventually going to come to it. The gaming industry is one of the poorest paying tech industries and with union/guild support, the worker bees would be able to not only rally for better pay and better quality of life, they could also stipulate proper credits. Unions/Guilds are a powerful thing, as people in the film industry are being reminded of right now.

@ Gwas

The IGDA wants standards and better quality of life for game developers, they just don't want to unionize it. I personally like the IGDA. They are a powerful lobbying group against development studios and publishers. Without them, the state of the industry would be much worse off.

Unions arose in a time when corporations did not listen to their employees. That does not happen as often in the game industry. The shear number of developers and publishers working with the IGDA shows that they want to come to common ground on quality of life issues for the game industry.

It depends on the medium - xbox live for example. But its all in very early days and it'll be a long time before a game from such a service can be expected to compete with a AAA title in terms of revenue, although in terms of numbers XBLA is easily holding it own because of the low profit margin and consumers who don't want to shell out $40-60 per game.

@ijed

My first gig was QA. We were often there as late as the developers, because if they were fixing stuff, they needed us there to verify those fixes, and be sure it didn't break anything else in the process.

We were scheduled to be in the in-game credits, but then the publisher told us (the dev studio) that QA was to be printed in the manual, and nothing more. Kinda sucked (especially since we'd recently seen the first build to include credits, with our names), but it was better than not being credited at all.

Now, having worked on other titles since as a designer, I've found that what bothers me is web credits. Places like MobyGames and the like will omit or partially omit whole sections of the dev team. The entire dev team should get credit for their contributions if a project makes it out the door.

@jack thompson, attorney


Taking credit for what?

And if it was an incident where many died, no one has yet as a result of Manhunt 2 being available., so shut up and go back to waiting for hearses to chase.

Personally i love steam. Sure it has its times it goes foxing retarded on me, but still...

Only problem i have with the mouzer foxin program is why do i have to pay the same for a mouzer foxin game on steam as i would for one where i can get a disk/case and game manuel? Sometimes even more!

What the fox is up with that?


But still its nice being able to chat to someone to set up a game, while being in game and not having to alt+tab the game. (sure its shift tabbing, but it doesnt sit around for 5 minutes being retarded.)

@Picho, In teh Steam roomz

Makes more sense I guess that makes more sens,e since if Manhunt 2 does as badly as most think, taking credit for it will be more like, well, taking credit for one of JT's court cases or past laws attempts

Jack, you are such a child. Only worse. You're a man-child. No one likes to see an old man try to be 'hip' and 'with it.' Stop trying to do so while you're still acting like video games are using technology that they won't use in home entertainment systems for several decades.

@Terrible Tom

That was a huge issue back in the 80s as I remember it.

Jack jack jack, I would love to introduce you to my relatives. There's a history with Nazi Germany in my family. My grandfather died in a concentration camp*. For you to besmirch the memories of so many people just for a jab at your golden calf is the height of bad taste. It's no wonder no one likes you. Not even your son.


















*They should really reinforce those guard tower railings. *bada bump bump tish!*

It seems like the movie industry does a good job of recognizing contributors to their initiatives - is there some type of rules system in place to keep the industry honest? Could something similar be inacted for the gaming industry???

Kuridu7885 -

That sounds more ignorant than shady business. Perhaps it was a mixture of both.

What do you suppose is the logic behind this issue? What does R* have to gain by not properly giving these workers credit they deserve? Save money because you don't have to use an extra page in the game manual? Save the player a few seconds when they beat the game and see the credits rolling?

I'll be honest, I wouldn't think Rockstar would screw their own workers in this manner. I usually like standing up for Rockstar but dude this is a very dumb business decision. Any response from Rockstar yet?