Submitted by neoelasticman - November 14, 2006 at 1:58 am -0500
Any time I go into discussions like this, I like to avoid the religious aspects and go directly into the logic so that I can avoid any religiously biased counter-arguments, and hopefully I'll find logic that can't even be refuted on religious grounds. I think I'll try that now. I'll start with a quote and then comment on it. One last note, I think the fact that I am a devout Catholic should be known so people know what background I'm coming from, but I should also note that, in my opinion, most people who call themselves "Catholics" are really not Catholics. That involves being true to God (and therefore to his creations), not just going to church every weekend and then otherwise being a bigot or a snob or something. Now that you have some background and opinion, I think you know enough to decide whether what I say is credible or not.
It is a sad state in this society that plain old common sense has disappeared
I agree, common sense is scarce these days. I see examples of this every day. Let's look up the definition of common sense, shall we? According to dictionary.com, common sense is sound practical judgment that is independent of specialized knowledge, training, or the like; normal native intelligence. So, what common sense is this man arguing is lacking? To sum up, he claims that everybody fails to realize we learn from experience. His idea is that if we experience evil, we will become evil. I disagree with that and I also would like to argue that whether or not we know about us learning from experience is irrelevant. Going for an extreme example, if you experience your house being robbed at gunpoint, you just gained some knowledge. If a person has even a slightly healthy mind, they will realize that GUN = BAD and STEALING = BAD. I could go on, but let's move to another quote.
Thus what we conceive in the mind, if acted upon, becomes sin.
My first problem is that he does not specify that only evil thoughts can manifest sin, but that can be interpreted as simply me being picky about grammar. More importantly, I would like to say that this is entirely right. Doing things that you know are bad is definitely bad. However, this does not apply to video games either. We know for a fact that playing GTA will not kill anybody, will not rob them of their possessions, or any other evil acts in the game. As soon as the game is turned off, the world you just robbed from disappears, and nobody is harmed. There is no evil in simulating such events. Let's apply something more applicable to myself and see how I fare against this arguement. I like this particular game series called "Thief" which you might have heard of. Obviously criminal intent will be involved, somewhat of a similar nature to what a D&D rogue might do. One thing you can do is pick locks. I was influenced by this, no doubt. I have a set of picks which I use as a hobby only with consent or on my own locks, and I have developed useful skills in case the worst happens. However, I have no intention of ever breaking into a room I was not given permission to enter. I have even developed an interest in security in general and hope that I can make a living from it. All in all, I would say that playing that game has influenced me very positively. Let's move on to another quote.
We need to protect the minds of ourselves and our youth from the violence in the world and portrayed in video games.
Protect them from what? Evil? Isolation might work. Evil will exist around a person no matter what. It is up to parents to tell a child what is right and what is not (and also to get that information right themselves so they can give a good example), and it is up to that child to obey what they have learned and know what's okay and what's not. Attempting to remove the ambient evil in the world is not the answer, it won't happen. All in all, it is up to each individual to lead a life of goodness on his own to the best of his ability, despite the bad happening around him. If a man plays video games, that does not seem to contradict a life of goodness to me. The contradiction occurs when we carry that into the real world, and I hardly see that happening so the only answer is that those who do have sick minds (like, literally sick as in a disease). Assuming you have a healthy mind (not the same as being intelligent) you are safe from your video games.
Posted 08/21/08 at 04:15pm GRIZZAM PRIME: Hot damn, the Trolls must've taken some troll steroids...they are all over today.
Posted 08/21/08 at 03:03pm Talouin: @ZippyDSMlee: Yea, that game has a really high learning curve fun when you got the hang of it but the SE developers need a kick
Posted 08/21/08 at 02:45pm ZippyDSMlee: Talouin:I quit FF11 3 months after I started, is a horrible game from top to bottom.
Posted 08/21/08 at 02:28pm Talouin: @SimonBob: I have never been happier I quit FFXI last month until now.
Posted 08/21/08 at 01:59pm ZippyDSMlee: Boyycotting only works when sheeple care, the masses have to want to care about subtleties, in general they do not thus why corporate gets as far as it does. However boycotting can raise a fuss and the bad PR might make them take note.
Posted 08/21/08 at 01:20pm SimonBob: There's a full explanation of the FFXI PW fight up: http://rukenshin.livejournal.com/17133.html
Posted 08/21/08 at 01:16pm Talouin: @Quander, That fight is brand spanking new. People just don't know how to do it yet.
Posted 08/21/08 at 01:06pm AM: @GP: Boycott is unlikely to be effective due to how few people would be aware/participate. That said, I boycott EA over their "3 installs then buy another copy" copy protection, so I can't say it's NOT a good idea.
Posted 08/21/08 at 01:06pm GryphonOsiris: @Scribe, just read that. The reports are saying that is was a targeted killing. Odds are a bully, gang related or something.
Posted 08/21/08 at 01:03pm SimonBob: I just glanced over some of the companies' game lists; turns out I was already boycotting three of them anyway.
Posted 08/21/08 at 12:53pm DarkTetsuya: @scribe999 yeah I heard about that, and I *thought* I saw a vulture circling the area...
Posted 08/21/08 at 12:53pm DarkTetsuya: @scribe999 yeah I heard about that, and I *thought* I saw a vulture circling the area...
Posted 08/21/08 at 12:36pm gamepolitics: is a gamer boycott of atari, codemasters, topware and the other 2 UK firms who are extorting file-sharers a good idea?
Posted 08/21/08 at 12:19pm scribe999: Another school shooting...this time in Tennessee. Terrible news. And I'm sure there's much hyperbole to follow.
Posted 08/21/08 at 12:10pm sortableturnip: hehehe ;)
Posted 08/21/08 at 12:09pm DarkTetsuya: @sortableturnip I'm totally putting what you said as my sig :P thanks!
Posted 08/21/08 at 12:02pm sortableturnip: OMG JT speaking in front of another BS group: http://jaablog.jaablaw.com/2007/09/04/
pardon-our-appearance.aspx?pg=2
&view=threaded
Posted 08/21/08 at 11:50am Neeneko: @Quander - I"m not all that familiar with FFXI, but maybe this mob just requires more gank? or there is a trick? larger group?
Posted 08/21/08 at 07:54am sortableturnip: The "smoking gun" is the Florida Bar dropping its insurance coverage from Nationwide
Posted 08/20/08 at 05:19pm jccalhoun: it would be interesting to hire a detective to investigae Jacko and find out his "smoking gun"
It is a sad state in this society that plain old common sense has disappeared
I agree, common sense is scarce these days. I see examples of this every day. Let's look up the definition of common sense, shall we? According to dictionary.com, common sense is sound practical judgment that is independent of specialized knowledge, training, or the like; normal native intelligence. So, what common sense is this man arguing is lacking? To sum up, he claims that everybody fails to realize we learn from experience. His idea is that if we experience evil, we will become evil. I disagree with that and I also would like to argue that whether or not we know about us learning from experience is irrelevant. Going for an extreme example, if you experience your house being robbed at gunpoint, you just gained some knowledge. If a person has even a slightly healthy mind, they will realize that GUN = BAD and STEALING = BAD. I could go on, but let's move to another quote.
Thus what we conceive in the mind, if acted upon, becomes sin.
My first problem is that he does not specify that only evil thoughts can manifest sin, but that can be interpreted as simply me being picky about grammar. More importantly, I would like to say that this is entirely right. Doing things that you know are bad is definitely bad. However, this does not apply to video games either. We know for a fact that playing GTA will not kill anybody, will not rob them of their possessions, or any other evil acts in the game. As soon as the game is turned off, the world you just robbed from disappears, and nobody is harmed. There is no evil in simulating such events. Let's apply something more applicable to myself and see how I fare against this arguement. I like this particular game series called "Thief" which you might have heard of. Obviously criminal intent will be involved, somewhat of a similar nature to what a D&D rogue might do. One thing you can do is pick locks. I was influenced by this, no doubt. I have a set of picks which I use as a hobby only with consent or on my own locks, and I have developed useful skills in case the worst happens. However, I have no intention of ever breaking into a room I was not given permission to enter. I have even developed an interest in security in general and hope that I can make a living from it. All in all, I would say that playing that game has influenced me very positively. Let's move on to another quote.
We need to protect the minds of ourselves and our youth from the violence in the world and portrayed in video games.
Protect them from what? Evil? Isolation might work. Evil will exist around a person no matter what. It is up to parents to tell a child what is right and what is not (and also to get that information right themselves so they can give a good example), and it is up to that child to obey what they have learned and know what's okay and what's not. Attempting to remove the ambient evil in the world is not the answer, it won't happen. All in all, it is up to each individual to lead a life of goodness on his own to the best of his ability, despite the bad happening around him. If a man plays video games, that does not seem to contradict a life of goodness to me. The contradiction occurs when we carry that into the real world, and I hardly see that happening so the only answer is that those who do have sick minds (like, literally sick as in a disease). Assuming you have a healthy mind (not the same as being intelligent) you are safe from your video games.